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FRASE

Spanish translation: Sin embargo, para cooptar naciones independientes y soberanas es necesario (ver frase)

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:Yet, to co-opt independent, sovereign nations requires (see phrase)
Spanish translation:Sin embargo, para cooptar naciones independientes y soberanas es necesario (ver frase)
Entered by: IlonaT
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23:04 Oct 15, 2002
English to Spanish translations [PRO]
English term or phrase: FRASE
El texto habla sobre la dependencia y la inferioridad de algunos países latinoamericanos frente a los Estados Unidos y otras potencias.

La frase que no entiendo es la siguiente:

"Yet to co-opt independent, sovereign nations requires lending and investment, simple pillage is not an option"
Carmen Garcia Morillo
cooptar
Explanation:
Sin embargo, para cooptar naciones independientes y soberanas es necesario otorgarles préstamos e/y invertir/ realizar inversiones; despojarlas simplemente no es /la opción/aceptable




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Note added at 2002-10-16 01:45:02 (GMT)
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Cooptar es aceptado por la RAE

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Note added at 2002-10-17 15:24:06 (GMT)
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To ACB.

I think the text is quite clear and self-explanatory.

Who are the powers?
Who are pillaging who, and have been doing so for years on end?
Who are the ones always trying to co-opt?
All we have to do is refer to history.

YET, in this case, means \'sin embargo\' not \'hasta\'.

Yes, we all know you are a native English speaker. There lies your problem: you are not translating into your mother tongue.

We have a saying in pure Castillian, not Spanglish:

\"Al buen entendedor, pocas palabras bastan.\"
Selected response from:

IlonaT
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:01
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2cooptarIlonaT
5 +1Sin embargo, el reclutar las países soberanos e independientes, requiere préstamos e inversiones, ..
GoodWords
5Sin embargo, para cooptar / absorber / apropiacar países soberanos e independientes, ...Refugio
5 -1Las naciones soberanas, aún por asumirse como independientes, requieren de préstamos e inversiones;Atenea Acevedo
4A pesar de todo/No obstante, para tomar posesión de naciones independientes y soberanos hay que/ ...
Karlo Heppner
5 -3terrible English
Karina Pelech


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -3
terrible English


Explanation:
It should read:

"Yet to co-opt, independent sovereign nations require lending and investment; simple pillage is not an option."

Hasta para elegir/optar, las naciones soberanas independientes necesitan/requieren de los préstamos y las inversiones; el saqueo simple no es una opción...

Esperamos ser de ayuda...

Allan & Karina
:o) & ;)

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Note added at 2002-10-16 04:06:01 (GMT)
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In the answers that Goodwords, Karlo and refugio give, one would have to read the sentence you give as:
\"Yet, co-opting individual sovereign nations require lending ... etc\"
or
\"Yet, for independant sovereign nations to co-opt, would require/requires lending and investment ... etc..\"
or
\"Yet, the co-opting of individual sovereign nations, requires lending ... etc..\"

In putting the \"to\" form of the verb to co-opt, one cannot immediately add a compound noun or noun phrase, without it being within a determinate clause - thus the use of a comma immediately afterwards.

Good luck anyway, whichever way you see it ... saludos desde BA ... :o)

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Note added at 2002-10-17 13:06:12 (GMT)
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I have noted refugio\'s entry, and he is probably correct.
Nevertheless, the English language does not lack such essential antecedents such as the subject of the sentence, unless completely understood within the lead sentence/phrase, or it is stated in a previous sentence (neither in US nor Brit. Eng) - even in the passive.
I am well aware of the Spanish language lacking such references however, and of the propensity for journalists to condense. But to condense, they MUST allow the reader to understand what is being said. Clearly - here - that is not the case, if refugio and Goodwords are to be believed.

Yes, we are trying to get the meaning here, but to extract it, one must have SOME agreement on the overall meaning. I am a native English speaker, and although I can see two (in fact - more) possibilities for this sentence, they are not the same. For this reason I shall leave my answer as a possibility among the others stated here.

The meaning - even if one prefers to see the Spanglish rather than the English meaning - is not just convoluted, as Goodwords says: but ridiculously condensed. If the subjects and or objects are missing from the phrase without a prior reference to them, how on earth can one decipher such rubbish (not just convolution!)?
In my humble opinion, I would suggest that you contact the client and ask for (or give us, if you have it), the previous sentence or the whole paragraph for further clarity.

Suerte ... :o)

Karina Pelech
Argentina
Local time: 10:01
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 1146

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  GoodWords: the subject of "require" is "to co-opt ... nations", which is singular, therefore the conjugation "requires" is correct.
34 mins
  -> perhaps - but how can you possibly disagree with such confusing English - incorrect punctuation etc.. ? saludos ... :o)

disagree  Karlo Heppner: I, too, would say, there must be some misunderstanding
53 mins
  -> If there is such misunderstanding (and there is - just look at the sentence) - how can you disagree? ... saludos desde BA ... :o)

disagree  Refugio: Your version is not my understanding of the sentence (see below(.
1 hr
  -> that doesn't necessarily mean that it's incorrect... it is how I SAW the sentence when I first tried deciphering the English and poor punctuation, use (!) of clauses, etc.. thanks anyway ... saludos ... :o)
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Las naciones soberanas, aún por asumirse como independientes, requieren de préstamos e inversiones;


Explanation:
el saqueo no representa una opción.

Carmen:

Espero que tu traducción no hable de "la inferioridad" de los países latinoamericanos. Vaya término. ¿No será un texto del FMI? Ahí lo dejo porque me van a moderar mis compañeros :)

Atenea Acevedo
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 260

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Karlo Heppner: A mi parecer no refleja el sentido de la frase original.
55 mins
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Sin embargo, el reclutar las países soberanos e independientes, requiere préstamos e inversiones, ..


Explanation:
... el saqueo manifiesto no es una opción viable.

co-opt: reclutar, llamar a filas (en el sentido de esta frase, implica hacerlo con indiferencia a la voluntad del país)

Quieren decir que para llegar a controlar un país independiente, hay que hacerlo con técnicas economicas más sútiles que un saqueo abierto.

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Note added at 2002-10-15 23:42:16 (GMT)
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\"LOS\" países

GoodWords
Mexico
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1947

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Luis Arri Cibils: Si,"co-opt" es asimilar (o ganarse --win-over) un grupo mas debil en un grupo dominante. One co-opts the opposition by offering them some share (a minor one) of the pie.
40 mins

neutral  Karina Pelech: If this is really what the sentence says, then the English, is in fact, terrible! - one who has a grasp of the English language would not write this sentence as the asker's version shows ..saludos ... :o)
2 hrs
  -> Trust me, the sentence is convoluted, but not incorrect. Just because I can understand it doesn't mean I approve it.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
A pesar de todo/No obstante, para tomar posesión de naciones independientes y soberanos hay que/ ...


Explanation:
hace falta recurrir a creditos/préstamos e inversiones, no es posible saquearlos así como así.

Karlo Heppner
Mexico
Local time: 07:01
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Karina Pelech: perhaps - I'm not disagreeing, but one would have to be a native speaker to see that the English is terrible or that it's been written by someone without an understanding of the same. Your version is as valid as mine in this case ... saludos ... :o)
2 hrs
  -> I´ve read your comments above and agree with you that there is a comma missing after yet and that the combination of (in order) to co-opt) and requieres is bad English, yet, I can´t imagine a different meaning of the sentence.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
cooptar


Explanation:
Sin embargo, para cooptar naciones independientes y soberanas es necesario otorgarles préstamos e/y invertir/ realizar inversiones; despojarlas simplemente no es /la opción/aceptable




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-10-16 01:45:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Cooptar es aceptado por la RAE

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-10-17 15:24:06 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To ACB.

I think the text is quite clear and self-explanatory.

Who are the powers?
Who are pillaging who, and have been doing so for years on end?
Who are the ones always trying to co-opt?
All we have to do is refer to history.

YET, in this case, means \'sin embargo\' not \'hasta\'.

Yes, we all know you are a native English speaker. There lies your problem: you are not translating into your mother tongue.

We have a saying in pure Castillian, not Spanglish:

\"Al buen entendedor, pocas palabras bastan.\"

IlonaT
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:01
PRO pts in pair: 247

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ramón Solá: Absolutely...
6 hrs
  -> Gracias, Ramón

agree  Karina Pelech: possibly... :o)
1 day12 hrs
  -> Thanks, ACB
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Sin embargo, para cooptar / absorber / apropiacar países soberanos e independientes, ...


Explanation:
es necesario hacer préstamos e inversiones, ..

I know I have seen cooptar in Spanish, and the English etymology states that it comes from the Latin cooptare!


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Note added at 2002-10-16 14:30:55 (GMT)
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I had put in a note correcting my typo apropiacar to apropiar, but apparently it didn\'t \"take.\"

Note for ACB & KMP: As for the sentence structure, think about it. Who is the co-opter and who is the co-optee? If you will substitute, just as an example out of the blue, the US and Argentina, then the meaning would be something like this:

\"Yet [in order for the US] to co-opt independent, sovereign nations [such as Argentina] requires [US] lending and investment, simple pillage [of Argentina] is not an option.\"

The writer has simply over-condensed.



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Note added at 2002-10-16 14:35:23 (GMT)
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Now that DRAE is back on line this morning, I see that cooptar probably has a narrower meaning in Spanish than in English. It gives:
cooptar.
1. tr. Llenar las vacantes que se producen en el seno de una corporación mediante el voto de los integrantes de ella.

So I withdraw cooptar and leave absorber and apropiar as my suggestions. I also would agree with asimilar and the explanation given by JJPPerez in his comment above.


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Note added at 2002-10-16 14:42:42 (GMT)
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And it should probably be noted that in the new era currently developing in US foreign policy, simple pillage may become an option after all. The co-option was only for the sake of appearances, it appears.

Refugio
Local time: 06:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2313

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Karina Pelech: apropiacar? - anyway, I don't believe this is what the text is meant to say... but I COULD be wrong. Going by the excellent use of clauses, who can say? ... saludos refugio ... :o)
1 hr
  -> See my note above. I think we have to establish the client's intent rather than grade them on their English.
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