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deliberative subjunctive


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23:41 Mar 28, 2007
English to Turkish translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics / grammar
English term or phrase: deliberative subjunctive
ya ihtiyatlı dilek kipi desem olurmu valla kafam şişti artık çıkaramıyom.please help
Local time: 13:13

Summary of answers provided
3müzakereci/müzakere amaçlı dilek kipi
Cagdas Karatas



7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
müzakereci/müzakere amaçlı dilek kipi

"Grammars used to identify a category of the subjunctive used in questions as the Deliberative Subjunctive. As the name indicates, these were questions about which there was some doubt as to the answer. In other words, they were questions asked in a deliberative context, not always expecting an immediate answer, but assuming the need for deliberation. They could even be used as exclamations which did not expect any kind of answer at all. This category, however, is a false category of the subjunctive. It is a rhetorical category, determined not by grammar, but by context. There are two ways to explain how this is a false category. First: is deliberation confined to the subjunctive? The answer is simply and unequivocally, "No." I may ask, "What are they doing?" (Indicative Question) or "What could we do?" (Potential Question) or "What should we do?" (Jussive Question) and in every case I may be uncertain, I may be asking for deliberation, or I may, in fact, be just expressing my own confusion and not expect any sort of answer at all. Second, is there any form of deliberation that would require the subjunctive because the subjunctive added something not already accounted for elsewhere? Again, "No." Allen and Greenough say: "such questions [that is, jussive questions] when addressed by the speaker to himself, as if asking his own advice, become deliberative or, not infrequently, merely exclamatory" (443). But this is a function of address, not of grammar, and I can do the same in the indicative. Woodcock says: "These [subjunctive questions] are most conveniently classified according to whether the question is evoked by a second party, or whether it is spontaneous. Only in the latter case is the subjunctive truly 'deliberative.'" (172). But the matter of who evokes the question is contextual, not grammatical, and, again, I can spontaneously ask someone else indicative questions as well as subjunctive questions. In fact, even Woodcock recognizes: "In questions that are truly deliberative, the indicative is almost as common as the subjunctive." This is a clear indication that "deliberation" is not a syntactical category; it is a function of context and rhetoric, not grammar. The fact that these two eminent grammarians disagree about what makes a deliberative subjunctive different from a jussive subjunctive (is it addressed to self? is it spontaneous?) indicates that it is a phantom elephant and these grammarians have merely found different parts of it."

Buradan hareketle, deliberative kelimesinin gramer bağlamındaki anlamının da expressing deliberation or doubt olduğunu aklımızın bir kenarında bulundurduğumuz vakit müzakereci/müzakere amaçlı dilek kipi türünden bir ifade önereceğim.

    omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/latin/grammar/subjunctive_questions.htm - 7k -
Cagdas Karatas
Local time: 13:13
Native speaker of: Turkish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: eyvallah hocam kedi güzelmiş

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Mar 28, 2007:
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