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un bâton de commandement

English translation: scepter

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	un bâton de commandement
English translation:	scepter
Entered by:	Richardson Lisa

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11:09 Mar 21, 2010

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Anthropology

French term or phrase: un bâton de commandement

This is from a list of attributes of the king of the Kingdom of Kongo. I'm thinking it's a sceptre, but the term doesn't really seem appropriate, although I suppose he is a king?
TIA
Lisa

Richardson Lisa KudoZ activity Questions: 33 (2 open) (1 without valid answers) Answers: 53 France
Local time: 18:00

scepter

Explanation:
OR royal scepter

King António's young son of seven years was captured. After the battle, the head of the king or Manikongo was buried with ceremony by the Portuguese in the chapel of Our Lady of Nazareth situated on the Bay of Luanda, and the crown and scepter of Kongo were sent to Lisbon as trophies.

See image: http://www.nmafa.si.edu/exhibits/treasures/artwork1.html

the terme 'bâton de commandement' is cited in dictionary. But I am note sure that it is commonly used.

Selected response from:

Dina El Kassas
Egypt
Local time: 18:00

Grading comment

many thanks
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +2

scepter

Dina El Kassas

ceremonial staff

kashew

pierced baton

Magen O'Farrell

baton (of office)

margaret caulfield

staff

Catharine Cellier-Smart

bâton de commandement

Jonathan MacKerron

Summary of reference entries provided

B D Finch

Discussion entries: 12

Richardson Lisa

France

ASKER

10:12 Mar 23, 2010

many thanks SJLD

SJLD	06:59 Mar 23, 2010 Sorry for the delay. Yes, he confirms "sceptre".

SJLD	Spelling 13:47 Mar 21, 2010 Sceptre for UK, scepter for US.

Richardson Lisa

France

ASKER

thanks

13:44 Mar 21, 2010

Many thanks to all for your input. At this stage scepter( with the English spelling seems most likely)Isn't that size thing just a myth???? And yes SJLD, I can wait until tomorrow, it would be great to hear what your friend thinks.

SJLD	@Lisa 13:34 Mar 21, 2010 If you can wait until tomorrow I can check with my Congolese friend who knows heaps about the kingdom of Kongo (he has lots of books about it).

B D Finch

France

Size is everything!

13:28 Mar 21, 2010

A ceremonial (or other) staff is long enough to lean on, so must be at least more than, say, 1 metre in length. A sceptre is something shorter that is carried only as a symbol of royal authority and is not useable as an aid to standing or walking. Dina's reference clearly shows a smallish sceptre from the Kingdom of Kongo, as does SJLD's. I hasten to add that I am unaware of any family connection with Finch & Co. - never heard of them before!

SJLD	I'd go for "sceptre" 12:35 Mar 21, 2010 which is defined as a "rod of command" or "staff of authority" Nice one here: http://www.finch-and-co.co.uk/art-and-antiques/detail/62407

SJLD	not antlers 12:28 Mar 21, 2010 pics here http://www.galion-import.com/spip.php?article411

Richardson Lisa

France

ASKER

Staff V sceptre

11:37 Mar 21, 2010

I'm wondering if this is a question of length? A staff seems longer than a sceptre in most images. Both can be carved in wood or metal, and some are made from animal teeth or tusks.

Jonathan MacKerron

@thanks

11:21 Mar 21, 2010

then we can be more or less sure that it is a real bâton de commandement made of antler, perhaps "bâton de commandement (antler staff)"??

Richardson Lisa

France

ASKER

the whole sentence

11:18 Mar 21, 2010

Hi Jonathan
Here's the whole sentence - it's just a list
'Quand il rend la justice, il est assis sur une peau de léopard, porte un collier de dents , un chapeau, un bâton de commandement et un éventail. '

Jonathan MacKerron

hard to say without more context

11:12 Mar 21, 2010

do you have a sentence please??

Answers

3 mins confidence:

bâton de commandement

Explanation:
if the link is to be believed

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A2ton_de_commandement

Jonathan MacKerron
Local time: 18:00
Native speaker of:

English

9 mins confidence:

pierced baton

Explanation:
In prehistoric contexts, the term is "pierced baton". In your later historical context I am not 100% sure that the same term is used.

Magen O'Farrell
France
Local time: 18:00
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English

8 mins confidence:

staff

Explanation:
both a status symbol and a weapon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_(stick)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2010-03-21 11:22:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

OK this is a video game, but you get the idea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Staff_of_...

Catharine Cellier-Smart
Local time: 20:00
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

33 mins confidence:

ceremonial staff

Explanation:
Or, tribal ceremonial staff

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 minutes (2010-03-21 11:44:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://images.oneofaki...

kashew
France
Local time: 18:00
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

scepter

Dina El Kassas
Egypt
Local time: 18:00
Native speaker of:

Arabic
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

many thanks

3 hrs confidence:

baton (of office)

Explanation:
According to the Oxford French-English Dictionary:

bâton de commandement: baton (of office)

margaret caulfield
Local time: 18:00
Native speaker of:

English,

Spanish
PRO pts in category: 4

Reference comments

2 hrs

Reference

Reference information:
"explorers sailed into the strong current of the Congo river, whose ..... is worthy of notice that the King of Kongo in those days held the title ... supplied by the Government, and in his hand he held a silver sceptre; ... With a long spear in his hand, a fine leopard-skin dangling in ..."

Reference: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1777621

B D Finch
France
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English

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English translation: scepter

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English translation: scepter

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