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crosse

English translation: "Crook" or "Scimitar" (in the specific context of a common motif in prehistoric "art")


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:crosse
English translation:"Crook" or "Scimitar" (in the specific context of a common motif in prehistoric "art")
Entered by: Christopher Crockett
Options:
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- Include in personal glossary

16:15 Jun 9, 2003
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Archaeology / archaeology
French term or phrase: crosse
Ces personnages sont dotés de signes de transcendance - crosse, 'objet' triangulaire à boucle ou palette terminale - , éléments virtuels connotant la position exceptionnelle des personnages représentés.

About the Copper Age menhir stautues
MSH
Local time: 17:02
Crook or Scimitar
Explanation:
I was in error above, as it appears that these "crooks" were not "shepherds' crooks" but rather "scimitars", easily mistaken for "scythes" : "The 'God of Szegvár Tüzköves'... shoulders a scimitar – not a sickle as Gimbutas (1974) presumes because the cutting edge of the blade is on the outward side – as a sign of his power."

Also, the "Copper Age" seems to be a period quite distinct from the "Bronze Age", in may places in Europe & Asia.

Always best to check into the technical jargon used in any high-powered discipline like archaeology, especially if you know nothing about that discipline, as I do (or don't, as the case may be).

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Note added at 2003-06-09 17:55:43 (GMT)
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In other words, I\'d consider using \"scimitar\" rather than \"crook\", since the latter can be easily misunderstood (as we\'ve all done here).

Why the French should choose call these things \"crosse\" remains a mystery lost in the Mists of Time.

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Note added at 2003-06-09 18:01:03 (GMT)
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Ahhh, \"crosse\" is used here, not in the sense of \"cross\" but rather \"Ba^ton recourbé utilisé dans certains jeux pour pousser la balle\" \"crosse de cricket, ...de hockey, ...de golf\" [& de Lacrosse??]

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Note added at 2003-06-09 19:12:39 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ahhh, \"crosse\" is used here, not in the sense of \"cross\" but rather \"Ba^ton recourbé utilisé dans certains jeux pour pousser la balle\" \"crosse de cricket, ...de hockey, ...de golf\" [& de Lacrosse??]
Selected response from:

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 12:02
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +7crookCoquine
4 +3shepherd's crook
William Stein
5 +1crozier or staffStephen Finch
5crook
Monica Alves
3Crook or Scimitar
Christopher Crockett


  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
crook


Explanation:
nice photo at website
Looks like a sheperd's crook

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Note added at 2003-06-09 16:29:53 (GMT)
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Copper Age should be Bronze Age


    Reference: http://www.entremont.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/megalith...
Coquine
Local time: 11:02
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  William Stein: Every nanosecond counts here!
1 min

agree  Enza Longo
16 mins

agree  irat56
44 mins

agree  roneill
58 mins

agree  Christopher Crockett: Yes, though I'd prefer "sheperd's crook", since all crooks aren't the same. Also, the "Copper Age" seems to be distinct from the "Bronze Age" : http://www.aquincum.hu/oskor/arezkor.html
1 hr

agree  Monica Alves: absolutely right Coquine
4 hrs

agree  Yolanda Broad
23 hrs
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
shepherd's crook


Explanation:
Maybe this symbolizes the "pastor" who leads his flock.

William Stein
Local time: 10:02
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Coquine: Ditto to the nanosecond comment!
2 mins

agree  Enza Longo: only fair that I give it to you too !
15 mins

agree  danyce
1 hr
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
crozier or staff


Explanation:
that's the technical translation it's a sign of office carried by a bishop - in ceremonies.
but as this is bronze age, maybe "staff of office" would be more historically appropriate

Stephen Finch
Local time: 17:02
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Coquine: Since the Bronze Age predates Christianity, the meaning probably relates more to animal husbandry than to religious hierarchy
15 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Crook or Scimitar


Explanation:
I was in error above, as it appears that these "crooks" were not "shepherds' crooks" but rather "scimitars", easily mistaken for "scythes" : "The 'God of Szegvár Tüzköves'... shoulders a scimitar – not a sickle as Gimbutas (1974) presumes because the cutting edge of the blade is on the outward side – as a sign of his power."

Also, the "Copper Age" seems to be a period quite distinct from the "Bronze Age", in may places in Europe & Asia.

Always best to check into the technical jargon used in any high-powered discipline like archaeology, especially if you know nothing about that discipline, as I do (or don't, as the case may be).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-06-09 17:55:43 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In other words, I\'d consider using \"scimitar\" rather than \"crook\", since the latter can be easily misunderstood (as we\'ve all done here).

Why the French should choose call these things \"crosse\" remains a mystery lost in the Mists of Time.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-06-09 18:01:03 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ahhh, \"crosse\" is used here, not in the sense of \"cross\" but rather \"Ba^ton recourbé utilisé dans certains jeux pour pousser la balle\" \"crosse de cricket, ...de hockey, ...de golf\" [& de Lacrosse??]

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-06-09 19:12:39 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ahhh, \"crosse\" is used here, not in the sense of \"cross\" but rather \"Ba^ton recourbé utilisé dans certains jeux pour pousser la balle\" \"crosse de cricket, ...de hockey, ...de golf\" [& de Lacrosse??]


    Reference: http://www.uf.uni-erlangen.de/felskunst/rockarch.html
    Reference: http://www.uf.uni-erlangen.de/felskunst/fig_01.html
Christopher Crockett
Local time: 12:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
crook


Explanation:
this is really to reinforce Coquine's answer. Not a scimitar! nor a shepperd's crook. Just crook. take a look at he site indicated by Coquine. The text below was copied from the site.

> La crosse

La crosse est un signe simple au graphisme monotone. On y voit volontiers une évocation de la houlette des premiers bergers, devenue symbole d'une maîtrise "douce" du monde animal (et, par extension, d'un pouvoir "politique" sur les humains).
Cette symbolique, qui elle aussi remonte aux origines du Néolithique, a été en faveur dans de nombreuses civilisations (de l'Egypte à la Rome antique entre autres) pour aboutir, dans le monde chrétien, au thème du "bon pasteur" et à la crosse épiscopale.

Sur les mégalithes armoricains, les crosses peuvent être isolées, mais elles sont souvent regroupées, opposées dos-à-dos ou superposées (mais leurs courbures sont alors en opposition). Cette disposition se retrouve dans la symétrie des compositions les plus complexes comme la stèle de la Table-des-Marchands à Locmariaquer.
Le signe en crosse peut également s'intégrer à celui de la hache en un dessin complexe dont les éléments restent bien reconnaissables dans les tracés anciens (plafond de la Table-des-Marchands) mais pas toujours dans certaines compositions tardives (comme le "rostre" surmontant l'"écusson" du menhir de Roudouallec).


    Reference: http://www.entremont.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/megalith...
Monica Alves
Local time: 13:02
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese, Native in EnglishEnglish
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