Translators - Translator Resources
ProZ.com global directory of translation services
 The translation workplace

French: assommoir

English translation: murder hole







KudoZ
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators... More



GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:assommoir
English translation:murder hole
Entered by:Robert Allwood
Options:
- Contribute to this entry

11:03am May 22, 2007Login or register (free) for more options.
French to English translations [PRO]
Architecture / history
French term or phrase: assommoir
La Porte de Fer était défendue par deux dispositifs qui se présentent comme des ouvertures étroites aménagées au sol, protégées aujourd’hui par des grilles de métal. Celle de droite est le passage de la herse. Celle de gauche est un assommoir, c’est-à-dire qu’elle servait à jeter des projectiles.
Here it does not seem to mean bludgeon or gin shop!
Robert Allwood
United Kingdom
Clarification request(s) and response
Jonathan MacKerron: 11:13am May 22, 2007: perhaps the author is mixing up "club" and "catapult"?
Jonathan MacKerron: 11:14am May 22, 2007: Grand Robert = "Instrument qui sert à assommer. Spécialt. Bâton garni d'une balle de plomb à l'une des extrémités.", the way it's described would also fit for a sling-shot
Tony M: 11:20am May 22, 2007: That sounds more like a 'flail', Jonathan — not at all the same as a sling-shot (think David and Goliath)
Tony M: 11:21am May 22, 2007: Actually, no, it's a 'mace'; the 'flail' had a loose ball on a chain

murder hole
Explanation:
Surely this is just a variant on a 'meurtrière'?

Castle Defenses

Murder holes are openings in a floor through which the castle defenders could drop missles or liquids upon the attackers. Stones were the most often used ...

www.castles-of-britain.com/castleso.htm


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2007-05-22 11:25:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perhaps the author is trying to make a distinction between the kinds of 'meutrières' that you have with overhanging battlements, so you can drop things on people to stop them trying to scale the walls, and the ones you have above a passage or gateway, so you can nut people as they try to pass through it — that would make sense in the context given with the reference to the other slit's being for the portcullis...
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Note from asker to answerer
Great phrase, I agree. And if you are talking about Norman castles, it does seem reasonable to use terms from French!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +9murder hole
Tony M
4 +1support, not for gradingBourth


  

Answers

12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +9
murder hole

Explanation:
Surely this is just a variant on a 'meurtrière'?

Castle Defenses

Murder holes are openings in a floor through which the castle defenders could drop missles or liquids upon the attackers. Stones were the most often used ...

www.castles-of-britain.com/castleso.htm


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2007-05-22 11:25:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perhaps the author is trying to make a distinction between the kinds of 'meutrières' that you have with overhanging battlements, so you can drop things on people to stop them trying to scale the walls, and the ones you have above a passage or gateway, so you can nut people as they try to pass through it — that would make sense in the context given with the reference to the other slit's being for the portcullis...

Tony M
France
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 64
Note from asker to answerer
Great phrase, I agree. And if you are talking about Norman castles, it does seem reasonable to use terms from French!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree Alain Pommet: Yes, this French link confirms:http://perso.orange.fr/alaric/defenses.htm
3 mins
  -> Thanks, Alain!

agree Bourth: Yes, I have a def. & illus. in an architec. dict. but have not had time to track down a specific term // more below
39 mins
  -> Thanks, Alex!

agree Helen Godfrey: Yep, confirmed also by Termium - Def: DEF – Opening in gatehouse porch ceiling and/or wall to allow attackers, trying to force gate or portcullis, to be attacked without means of retaliation
42 mins
  -> Thanks, Helen!

agree Vicky Papaprodromou
1 hr
  -> Efharisto, Vicky!

agree Richard Benham: Well done.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, RB!

agree Swatchka
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Swatchka!

agree Christopher Crockett: A lovely name, for a hole.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Chris! It is, isn't it? Can't help thinking it's just copied from the FR, though.

agree silviantonia: Meurtriere is so much more elegant...
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Silvia! Yes, indeed!

agree IC --
20 hrs
  -> Thanks, IC!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
support, not for grading

Explanation:
Support for Tony's answer.

Assommoir – Ouverture réalisée dans la couvrement des entrées d'une place-forte. Situé généralement entre la herse et la porte, l'assomoir permettait de pilonner l'assaillant pris au piège dans le sas d'entrée.
[Dictionnaire d'architecture, Mathilde Lavenu & Victorine Mataouchek, ed. Jean-Paul Gisserot]

A drawbridge was a moveable wooden bridge that gapped the castle ditch or moat. It could be removed or raised to prevent easy entry into the castle. The gatehouse was the entrance to the castle containing at least one portcullis that could be raised or lowered. Vaulted ceilings could contain murder holes and arrow slits in the side walls
http://www.castles-of-britain.com/castleso.htm

Meurtriere - an opening in the roof of an entrance passage where soldiers could shoot into the room below. Also see Murder Hole. Also, water could be poured down the meurtrière to extinguish any fires the enemy might set to destroy the door. Only used when outer gate has been breached.
Murder Hole - a section between the main gate and a inner portcullis where arrows, rocks, and hot oil can be dropped from the roof though holes. Provides good cover for defenders and leaves the attacker open. Only used when outer gate has been breach
http://www.castle.lv/castles4/hroniki/glossary.html

A murder-hole is a hole in the ceiling of a gateway or passageway in a fortification through which the defenders can fire, throw or pour dangerous or ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder-hole


Bourth
France
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 350

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree IC --
19 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)





Return to KudoZ list