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hôtel

English translation: residence/hôtel


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:hôtel
English translation:residence/hôtel
Entered by: claude-andrew
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09:31 Dec 3, 2011
French to English translations [PRO]
Architecture / Architectural survey
French term or phrase: hôtel
From the website of a survey company specialising in historic edifices: examples of contracts. Would you keep "hôtel" as such? I'm in two minds about a number of proper nouns in this translation. Obviously Palais de l'Elysée is Elysée Palace, bu others are not so clear.

Références de relevés d’édifices sensibles :
Hôtels particuliers ministériels et institutionnels (2005-2011) – Relevés de façades, plans et coupes partielles. Conseil constitutionnel, conseil d’état, hôtel de Roquelaure, hôtel du Chatelet, Hôtel de Brienne, Hôtel de Villeroy.
claude-andrew
France
Local time: 18:04
residence/hôtel
Explanation:
This word occurs quite often in context of 19th century lit. It cannot be called a private mansion as such, because that has another connotation in terms of estates and such. I would call it 'residence' as the terms is used in a wide variety of meanings, but in terms of a place you go which may not even be your own but which you rent (like in Dumas's Count of Monte Cristo) or a place which you do own but which is one of many. Noblemen had a 'terre' which meant their home ground which was their private estate, maybe somewhere far away, and then they had residences in Paris (hôtels) because that's where all the interesting things were taking place. They may have been extensive with grounds and such or they may have been just large town houses with private gardens.

You could also call it a 'hôtel', though (as on Wikipedia too). I also saw it used in Charltte Brontë's Jane Eyre. However, it needs to be said that she knew French well.

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Note added at 52 mins (2011-12-03 10:23:04 GMT)
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ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hôtel_particulier
Selected response from:

Kirsten Bodart
Germany
Local time: 18:04
Grading comment
Thanks again Wendy!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +7residence/hôtelKirsten Bodart
4 +2townhousexxxBourth
3mansion
Wendy Streitparth
Summary of reference entries provided
hôtelglossian
ministerial and institutional residences, or <i>hôtels particuliers</i>
Nikki Scott-Despaigne

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
mansion


Explanation:
but as you say there are many "approximations"

Wendy Streitparth
Local time: 18:04
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
residence/hôtel


Explanation:
This word occurs quite often in context of 19th century lit. It cannot be called a private mansion as such, because that has another connotation in terms of estates and such. I would call it 'residence' as the terms is used in a wide variety of meanings, but in terms of a place you go which may not even be your own but which you rent (like in Dumas's Count of Monte Cristo) or a place which you do own but which is one of many. Noblemen had a 'terre' which meant their home ground which was their private estate, maybe somewhere far away, and then they had residences in Paris (hôtels) because that's where all the interesting things were taking place. They may have been extensive with grounds and such or they may have been just large town houses with private gardens.

You could also call it a 'hôtel', though (as on Wikipedia too). I also saw it used in Charltte Brontë's Jane Eyre. However, it needs to be said that she knew French well.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2011-12-03 10:23:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hôtel_particulier

Kirsten Bodart
Germany
Local time: 18:04
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks again Wendy!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Karen Vincent-Jones: Perhaps you could qualify it as 'historic residence'?
12 mins
  -> Thanks! It depends as some of them changed names through the years... Like the Matignon. It will depend on the context in the document :)

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne
25 mins
  -> Thanks!

agree  Mohd shadab
49 mins
  -> Thanks!

agree  Alistair Ian Spearing Ortiz
50 mins
  -> Thanks!

agree  etienne muylle i wallace
1 hr
  -> Thanks!

agree  LaraBarnett: residence
2 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  B D Finch
1 day3 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
townhouse


Explanation:
Hôtel in this sense usually requires some arranging in order to introduce some sort of explanation to make it clear it is not a "hotel" we are talking about.

When you think about it, these hôtels were the city residences of the aristocracy who resided much of the time in their country houses. We have a word for hôtel that nobody much uses because it has acquired a different meaning over the years, and that word is "townhouse". I often use "aristocratic townhouse" in an attempt to get the message across concisely where concision is necessary. Where there is greater latititude for explanation, "mansion" or "mansion house", "palatial residence", etc. can be mixed in as well.

A townhouse (or townhome derived from "house in town") is the term historically used in the United Kingdom, Ireland and in many other countries to describe a residence of a peer or member of the aristocracy in the capital or major city. Most such figures owned one or more country houses in which they lived for much of the year. During the social season (when major balls and drawing rooms took place), and when parliament was in session, peers and the servants moved to live in their townhouse in the capital.

Today the term townhouse can have multiple definitions: in North America it is used to describe terraced housing and in Australia the term is commonly used for contemporary medium density housing in the terraced style.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townhouse

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Note added at 1 day23 hrs (2011-12-05 09:22:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

So, spelling it out for detractors, Hôtels particuliers ministériels et institutionnels</> could become "Former aristocratic townhouses now occupied by government ministries or agencies and/or private companies".

xxxBourth
Local time: 18:04
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 535
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Bourth - I didn't know the term "townhouse".


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Helen Shiner
3 hrs

agree  Gilla Evans: This is the accepted term, with Hôtel being kept in proper names in most circumstances.
18 hrs

agree  writeaway: yup, they are not always residences. in any case most Fr-En dictionaries offer a number of translations and explanations.
22 hrs

neutral  Kirsten Bodart: That is the normal term yes, but you would not say 'ministerial or institutional townhouse', would you, referring to Downing Street no. 10? That is essentially what they are trying to get at in this context. E.g. the Matignon.
22 hrs
  -> Theoretically, at least, that is why we have human translators, people who can use their brains to say something like "the Home Office in the 18th-C Hôtel de La di Dâ, formerly the townhouse of the aristocratic La di Dâ family".

disagree  B D Finch: In the UK, nowadays, "townhouse" is used to mean a terraced house of three or more storeys, as a townhousebrief scan of some UK builders' or estate agents' websites will show. Try "modest townhouse", or "new townhouses for sale".
23 hrs
  -> I thought I'd made that point. Hence the addition of "aristocratic" (I suspect not to many aristocrats live in today's townhouses, or if they do, they keep quiet about a) being aristo and/or b) living in one, depending on to whom one is speaking.
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Reference comments


12 mins
Reference: hôtel

Reference information:
most of the time these are former HÔTELS PARTICULIERS"
you may keep the French expression that is widely recognized

Example sentence(s):
  • private mansions

    Reference: http://www.facebook.com/pages/H%C3%B4tel-particulier/1123994...
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B4tel_particulier
glossian
France
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thanks - that's what I wanted to know

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1 hr peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: ministerial and institutional residences, or <i>hôtels particuliers</i>

Reference information:
You could adopt the following solution :

Ministerial and institutional residences, or hôtels particuliers, ..... hôtel Roquelaure, hôtel du Châtelet...

This means you are sure of getting the meaning across, whilst retaining the chic of the French term and yet being sure getting your meaning across without patronising those who already know! It also prepares understanding for the list that follows.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hôtel_particulier

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
France
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  writeaway: yup, info abounds. not difficult to find
1 day1 hr
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Voters for reclassification
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Non-PRO (1): LaraBarnett


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