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évidentes en ce qui concerne les œuvres d’art

English translation: While it is obvious why *works of art* are collected...

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:Evidentes en ce qui concerne les œuvres d’art, les motivations profondes de la constitution des collections d’objets
English translation:While it is obvious why *works of art* are collected...
Entered by: Yolanda Broad

16:00 Jul 9, 2003
French to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary / museum collection
French term or phrase: évidentes en ce qui concerne les œuvres d’art
"Evidentes en ce qui concerne les œuvres d’art, les motivations profondes de la constitution des collections d’objets de la vie quotidienne sont plus complexes."

Terre élue par les hommes depuis la préhistoire, la Côte d’Azur a conservé de multiples traces matérielles des activités humaines. Les objets qui nous sont parvenus forment les collections de nos musées, dont l’histoire a commencé à la fin du XVIIIe et s’est singulièrement accélérée dans le dernier quart du XXe siècle. Evidentes en ce qui concerne les œuvres d’art, les motivations profondes de la constitution des collections d’objets de la vie quotidienne sont plus complexes.

From a text about various museums. I can translate it, but I am not really sure what they mean!
Mark Nathan
France
Local time: 19:59
While it is obvious why *works of art* are collected...
Explanation:
the real motivations behind the collecting of of the *utilitarian objects* of daily life are more complex (and difficult to understand).

I like the directness of Jane's "deeper motivations" for "motivations profoundes", but think that "real motivations" is closer to the sense, even if not a literal translation.

The essence of the quote is the sometimes useful distinction between "art" and "utilitarian objects", and it reminds me of the definition of "art" offered by the great American art historian George Kubler (himself a student of the great French art historian Henri Focillon) : "art" consists of artifacts which are, essentially, "useless".

The problem I have with the quote is that I think the guy has got it just backwards : it's the motivations behind the collecting of "useless" art which are very complex and difficult to understand. Collecting tools, implements, etc. makes perfect sense, to me.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-10 13:56:46 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Carolina\'s point (below) is well taken, and it is the reasons behind \"la constitution des collections\" (\"collection development\" in the museum world, I believe) which is indeed the subject of the sentence.
Seen from this (impersonal) point of view, these motivations *are* more complex --the commercial viability of a \"domestic artifacts\" collection, for instance, might be a bit more dodgey than that of a straightforward \"Beaux Arts\" one.
I\'m still inclined to stick to my guns, however, unless the broader context of Mark\'s source suggests otherwise.
Selected response from:

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 13:59
Grading comment
Thanks everyone.
I wasn't sure because it does seem the wrong way round to me! I have always thought that collecting art (or useless objects) was a very complex business, from a motivational point of view.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +3While it is obvious why works of art are collected, it is much more difficult to understand what it
mckinnc
5 +2The deeper motivations for creating collections of objects
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
4 +3the motivation underlying the collection of everyday (period) objects is obviously more complex than
RHELLER
4 +2whilst it is easy to understand the deeper motivations that prompt people to collect works of art...
CMJ_Trans (X)
5Where the reasons are obvious when it comes to works of art, the real motivation for collecting
margaret caulfield
3Though obvious in the case of works of art, the underlying motivations driving museums to...
Carolingua
1 +1While it is obvious why *works of art* are collected...
Christopher Crockett


  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
While it is obvious why works of art are collected, it is much more difficult to understand what it


Explanation:
Something like that

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-09 16:07:04 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops, I se my answer got snipped. Here\'s teh missing part:

....is, deep down, that motivates those who collect everyday objects

mckinnc
Local time: 19:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 922

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Paul Lambert: perfect! think that flows really nicely in English!
6 mins
  -> thank you very much
agree  Christopher Crockett: Makes more sense with the snipped off bit added.
12 mins
agree  HRiley
27 mins
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
The deeper motivations for creating collections of objects


Explanation:
from everyday life are more complex than the obvious ones in the case of works of art.



:)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-09 16:09:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It is obvious why one collects works of art

It is not obvious [deeper motivations] why one would collect objects from everyday life

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in pair: 8576

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: Yes, the emphesis is on the difference between collections of "art" and "utilitarian objects".
9 mins
agree  RHELLER: definitely the meaning here
9 mins
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21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
the motivation underlying the collection of everyday (period) objects is obviously more complex than


Explanation:
the motivation underlying the collection of everyday (period) objects is obviously more complex than that behind the collection of art (objects)

another way of putting something similar

RHELLER
United States
Local time: 11:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1582

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: "Underlying motivation" is close to the original "profound" and perhaps an improvement over Jane's "deeper".
27 mins
agree  Carolingua: yes, underlying is better
2 hrs
agree  lien
2 hrs
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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +1
While it is obvious why *works of art* are collected...


Explanation:
the real motivations behind the collecting of of the *utilitarian objects* of daily life are more complex (and difficult to understand).

I like the directness of Jane's "deeper motivations" for "motivations profoundes", but think that "real motivations" is closer to the sense, even if not a literal translation.

The essence of the quote is the sometimes useful distinction between "art" and "utilitarian objects", and it reminds me of the definition of "art" offered by the great American art historian George Kubler (himself a student of the great French art historian Henri Focillon) : "art" consists of artifacts which are, essentially, "useless".

The problem I have with the quote is that I think the guy has got it just backwards : it's the motivations behind the collecting of "useless" art which are very complex and difficult to understand. Collecting tools, implements, etc. makes perfect sense, to me.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-10 13:56:46 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Carolina\'s point (below) is well taken, and it is the reasons behind \"la constitution des collections\" (\"collection development\" in the museum world, I believe) which is indeed the subject of the sentence.
Seen from this (impersonal) point of view, these motivations *are* more complex --the commercial viability of a \"domestic artifacts\" collection, for instance, might be a bit more dodgey than that of a straightforward \"Beaux Arts\" one.
I\'m still inclined to stick to my guns, however, unless the broader context of Mark\'s source suggests otherwise.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 13:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 444
Grading comment
Thanks everyone.
I wasn't sure because it does seem the wrong way round to me! I have always thought that collecting art (or useless objects) was a very complex business, from a motivational point of view.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Carolingua: I love your version. I might say "underlying motivations", instead of "real motivations"...
7 mins
  -> Yes, "underlying" is close to Rita's solution and gets closer to "profoundes", but I still think that the essence of it is not its "depth" but its "real" essence. Thanks, Carolingua.
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42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Where the reasons are obvious when it comes to works of art, the real motivation for collecting


Explanation:
Where the reasons are obvious when it comes to works of art, the real motivation for collecting every day objects is more complex.

margaret caulfield
Local time: 19:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 368

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Christopher Crockett: I'm not sure I understand this "where" construction. Perhaps it is English (U.K.) English ? Or in the sense of "whereas" ? "Every day objects" is good.
9 mins
  -> I would say that both are perfectly correct. Thks for yr comment
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53 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
whilst it is easy to understand the deeper motivations that prompt people to collect works of art...


Explanation:
it is more difficult to understand what drives them to collect more mundane objects.

CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 19:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 5264

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: "Whilst" is better than "where", but is definitely a Britishism.
21 mins
  -> well of course!
agree  Terejimenez: .
7 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Though obvious in the case of works of art, the underlying motivations driving museums to...


Explanation:
could they be talking about the museums' motivation here? Everyone so far has been looking at it from an individual collector's perspective, but since this is a text about museums....


"Though obvious in the case of (recognized) works of art, the underlying motivations driving museums to create collections of every day items is more complex..."

Carolingua
United States
Local time: 10:59
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 193
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