comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles - it came out of left field ( translation glossary) movie synopsis,Cinema, Film, TV, Drama,Art/Literary

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles
English translation:	it came out of left field
Entered by:	Wyley Powell

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4:40pm Aug 18, 2006

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Cinema, Film, TV, Drama / movie synopsis

French term or phrase: comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles

Brief description of Truffaut's "Les 400 coups" which "fit l'effet d'un chien dans un jeu de quilles tant à sa sortie qu'à sa présentation au Festival de Cannes."

The image is clear but can't think of an English equivalent. (Fish out of water?)

Thanks for suggestions.

Wyley Powell

KudoZ activity
Questions: 501 (16 open)
Answers: 73

Canada

Clarification request(s) and response

Sandra Petch: 4:55pm Aug 18, 2006: Isn't there something about "un éléphant dans un magasin de porcelaine" for the bull in a china shop? Which would be more about being clumsy anyway... The Petit Robert defines the "dog and skittles" expression as meaning "mal à propos"...
Marion Sadoux: 5:05pm Aug 18, 2006: I think that whatever idiom you go for, it must not have any strong negative connotations such as clumsiness or heaviness, this just means that it was unlike anything else there and that it caused wonderment and surprise.
Sandra Petch: 5:10pm Aug 18, 2006: Strange... your sentence suggests the film didn't get a good reception and yet (Wikipedia) "The film was widely acclaimed, winning numerous awards, including the Best Director award at the 1959 Cannes Film Festival...."
xxxCMJ_Trans: 5:21pm Aug 18, 2006: if the film was acclaimed - then maybe "caused a stir", did not go unnoticed, created a few waves.....

it came out of left field

Explanation:
just to be a little bit more jazzy! (I like a bit of jazz...)

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Note added at 20 hrs (2006-08-19 13:35:59 GMT)
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or maybe it caught everyone off-guard or off-balance...

Selected response from:

Alanna Wilson-Duff
Australia

Note from asker to answerer

Sincere thanks to all who replied. Tough choice but I finally went with "it came out of left field" because I think that best conveys the meaning. Unfortunately, the imagery had to be sacrificed.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +5

comment - NFG

Bourth

3 +4

it was unexpected. caught people by surprise.

writeaway

3 +4

went down like a lead balloon

Sandra Petch

NFG

sodamnlogical

3 +2

it came out of left field

Alanna Wilson-Duff

3 +2

like a porcupine in a balloon factory

Kari Foster

5 -1

like a bull in a china shop

mediamatrix

caught people/the public unawares

xxxRaynald Adam

To turn up at the wrong moment.

Juan Jacob

4 -1

like a bull in a china shop

David Hollywood

it stole the show

Marion Sadoux

Answers

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

like a bull in a china shop

Explanation:
.

mediamatrix
Chile
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 20

6 mins confidence:

To turn up at the wrong moment.

Explanation:
Please see:
http://interact.cbc.ca/pipermail/wordoftheweek/2003-November...
Luck.

Juan Jacob
Mexico
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Spanish,

French
PRO pts in category: 4

6 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

like a bull in a china shop

Explanation:
Like a bull in a china shop, Comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles, Like a dog in a game of ninepins. Like father, like son. Tel père, tel fils. ...
french.about.com/library/express/blex_cliche.htm - 34k - Cached - Similar pages

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Note added at 8 mins (2006-08-18 16:48:36 GMT)
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Les proverbes offrent en général de parfaites illustrations de I'équivalence: "like a bull in a china shop: comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles"; ...
www.accurapid.com/Journal/32metodos.htm - 64k - Cached - Similar pages

David Hollywood
Argentina
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 8

16 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

went down like a lead balloon

Explanation:
Re my note above :-)

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Note added at 55 mins (2006-08-18 17:35:58 GMT)
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"Came like a bolt from the blue" - suggesting surprise, something unexpected...

Sandra Petch
France
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Julie Goupille: Usually this would be translated, "Like a bull..." but in this context, went down like a lead balloon expresses the idea of it bein a "total bust"

3 mins

-> Thanks, though I think I'm barking up the wrong tree (to keep the dog image!)

agree

xxxCMJ_Trans: much more apposite

7 mins

-> Thanks but I think I'm on the wrong track.

agree

Alanna Wilson-Duff: yeah, I tend to agree with you Sandra. Somehow a bull in a china shop somehow clashes with a film being badly received. Where's the awkwardness? the destruction? The lead ballon really says 'flop' as well as having good imagery.

9 mins

-> Thanks, but I don't think this is it. I've made a new suggestion!

agree

David Hollywood: best suggestion so far :)

16 mins

-> Thanks David but I think it's off-course!

disagree

Marion Sadoux: This would imply a negative reception, a flop, which is not what the original sentence says or infers

19 mins

-> See my note above prior to your comment

neutral

writeaway: historically hard to imagine: In 1959, Truffaut made his first feature, Les 400 Coups, for which he won Best Director at the Cannes film festival. http://www.ruspoli.com/film/essays/julesandjim.html

35 mins

-> Again, see my note above prior to your comment (and new suggestion) :-)

agree

gad: sounds good

11 hrs

neutral

sodamnlogical: surprise, yes, except that it has to imply the notion of being out of place as well :-)

20 hrs

56 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

it was unexpected. caught people by surprise.

Explanation:
It was one of the first films of the Nouvelle Vague. It wasn't the sort of films audiences were used to seeing. I think it's in this direction. Certainly not negative.

writeaway
Belgium
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

xxxCMJ_Trans: broke with tradition/caught people on the hop

4 mins

agree

Sarah Downing: This is definitely more like it. We actually studied this one at uni and, if I remember rightly, it caused quite a sensation - the protagonist, Antoine Doinel, was a neglected child.

1 hr

neutral

Alanna Wilson-Duff: I agree with sarah- caused quite a sensation

17 hrs

-> there are lots of ways to say this. the idea is that is was a positive event and nothing negative about it. just the name Truffaut would make negative comments virtually impossible ;-)

neutral

sodamnlogical: surprise, yes, except that it has to imply the notion of being out of place as well IMO :-)// because it is so unlike anything that came before it; that's why it would seem "out of place'

19 hrs

-> how can a film be out of place at the Cannes Film Festival?

agree

suezen: caught (many) people on the hop

21 hrs

agree

xxxdf49f

1 day1 hr

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

like a porcupine in a balloon factory

Explanation:
Maybe still a bit too negative-- but at least it's a little less violent than the bull/china shop scenario!

Sometimes used with "...as nervous as a...", but can also be used to describe something that is unwelcome or out of place.

Kari Foster
France
Native speaker of:

English

1 hr confidence:

it stole the show

Explanation:
a bit further from the original, but another possible metaphore

Marion Sadoux
United Kingdom
Native speaker of:

French

48 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

comment - NFG

Explanation:
While I agree with others that "like a bull ..." could be the equivalent, it does have connotations of clumsiness or even violence. The intention of the perpetrator is different too: I imagine a bull panicking in a shop and running rampage, whereas a dog would be excited and be having fun among the skittles ...

For info, some explanations of the expression :

Venir, arriver « comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles » c’est un peu arriver « comme un cheveu sur la soupe » ! signifiant l’incongruité d’une arrivée à contre temps, très mal à propos, pêchant contre toute espèce de règle…
D’où sûrement, qu’être reçu « comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles » fait que l’on se voit rabroué, voire renvoyé d’où l’on vient !
http://www.communicanis.com/chiendansunjeudequilles.html

comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles. Mal à propos, de manière incongrue. Personne ne l’attendait, il est arrivé comme un chien dans un jeu de quille. ...
fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/comme_un_chien_dans_un_jeu_de_quilles

If you have any more context it might help pin down exactly what the author may have intended ...

For the moment I can only think of very prosaic translations ...

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Note added at 7 hrs (2006-08-18 23:47:25 GMT)
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Depending on intended meaning (un unexpected burden that spoils the life/fun of others?), it could possibly be "like a cuckoo in the nest".

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Note added at 7 hrs (2006-08-18 23:52:55 GMT)
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was/came as a turn-up for the books?

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Note added at 7 hrs (2006-08-18 23:54:31 GMT)
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Turn-up for the books, a - piece of good fortune, usually unexpected ... fortune and sometimes an act of effrontery giving rise to surprise or disapproval. ...
users.tinyonline.co.uk/gswithenbank/sayingst.htm

Bourth
France
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 36

20 hrs confidence:

NFG

Explanation:
IMO, un chien dans un jeu de quille means that it's out of place, it doesn't fit in, it doesn't fit with the situation. A misfit. It doesn't belong there. It's too different from the other movies at the festival, etc.
Or something like that.
So ok, that's the meaning.
Now, for an equivalent expression... I can't think of anything!

Good luck!

sodamnlogical
Canada
Native speaker of:

French

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

it came out of left field

Explanation:
just to be a little bit more jazzy! (I like a bit of jazz...)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2006-08-19 13:35:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or maybe it caught everyone off-guard or off-balance...

Alanna Wilson-Duff
Australia
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 8

Note from asker to answerer

Sincere thanks to all who replied. Tough choice but I finally went with "it came out of left field" because I think that best conveys the meaning. Unfortunately, the imagery had to be sacrificed.

3 days1 hr confidence:

caught people/the public unawares

Explanation:
Source: Canadian Gage Dictionary

adv. 1. without being expected; by surprise

(Just an idea, after reading all of your remarks and suggestions)

xxxRaynald Adam
Canada
Native speaker of:

French,

English

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French: comme un chien dans un jeu de quilles

English translation: it came out of left field