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nef

English translation: (boat) shed

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:nef
English translation:(boat) shed
Entered by: Miranda Joubioux
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15:44 Feb 20, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Construction / Civil Engineering
French term or phrase: nef
L’Ile de Nantes n’a pas tout perdu du charme de son passé de chantiers navals. A l’exception du pont transbordeur (F. Arnodin, 1903-1958), regretté des Nantais et dont les piles subsistent, nefs, portiques, grues superbes et cales demeurent.

and later

Ces sections font de même écho aux fers en T des grandes nefs voisines restaurées par A. Chemetoff

The only thing I have found is a "nef de montage" in my Routledge technical dictionary, the translation of which is assembly hall.

I need the knowledge of someone who knows their way round ports.
Miranda Joubioux
Local time: 07:11
shed
Explanation:
En voici une photo
http://www.nantesmetropole.fr/1174661061720/0/fiche___articl...

ce sont les grands hangars du chantier naval...

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Note added at 46 minutes (2008-02-20 16:31:21 GMT)
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un autre document avec la maquette des Nefs Dubigeon ...
www.iledenantes.com/ml/images/content/documentation/dp_mach...
Selected response from:

Agnès Levillayer
Italy
Local time: 07:11
Grading comment
Yes, this is it and thanks for the picture, it helped a lot.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +4shed
Agnès Levillayer
4 -1shipdefinitions
1 +1sheds
Tony M
2Hangar
fourth
3 -2navedefinitions
1entrance to the port1045


  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
ship


Explanation:
According to my dictionary,
nef (nf) = ship

definitions
United Arab Emirates
Local time: 09:11
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in MalayMalay

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: But clearly not applicable in the context as given!
6 mins
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
entrance to the port


Explanation:
... similar to a church's entrance ...

1045
Canada
Local time: 01:11
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: But J-C, the 'nef' isn't the entrance to the church....
7 mins
  -> Always looking forward to your comments, Tony. Maybe I should have written "similar to the hall leading to the port per se" ...
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21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
nave


Explanation:
I see it also says nef= nave (cathedrale)

You're right, Tony!

definitions
United Arab Emirates
Local time: 09:11
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in MalayMalay

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  David Goward: As Tony says above, "clearly not applicable in the context as given!". When guessing, a confidence level of 1 should be given (cf. rules).
5 mins

disagree  Tony M: Once again, although there may be a metaphorical connection, this couldn't be considered as a serious translation contender.
7 mins
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
shed


Explanation:
En voici une photo
http://www.nantesmetropole.fr/1174661061720/0/fiche___articl...

ce sont les grands hangars du chantier naval...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 46 minutes (2008-02-20 16:31:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

un autre document avec la maquette des Nefs Dubigeon ...
www.iledenantes.com/ml/images/content/documentation/dp_mach...

Agnès Levillayer
Italy
Local time: 07:11
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Yes, this is it and thanks for the picture, it helped a lot.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Goward
8 mins

agree  Tony M: Well found!
12 mins

agree  Michael GREEN: Forget my previois comment - due to misreading the text :( - agree with "shed" : "boat shed " might be better
16 mins
  -> les "nefs" n'ont rien à voir avec le "pont transbordeur" (détruit) en effet mais font partie des structures des vieux chantiers énumérées dans la phrase et qui existent encore...

agree  xxxBourth: www.nantes-tourisme.com/servlet/com.univ.collaboratif.utils.LectureFichiergw?ID_FICHE=512&OBJET=0008...
29 mins
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23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Hangar


Explanation:
The idea of the great nave of a church allied to architectural/naval origins of the word, make me hazard a guess that this might be a hangar/workshop. Have you been to the Ile de Rennes? What is there?

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-02-20 18:01:04 GMT)
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Having seen the photos...for which all thanks, it seems clear that the type of sheds these are....are hangars. The target word is "nef" so we shouldn't be going for a plural answer, do you think?
Finally, The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines Hangar as: "Building with extensive floor area , for housing aircraft etc" The "etc" has it, Tony, do you think?

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-02-20 18:06:26 GMT)
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The "nef" concept is, I agree, interesting. The compagnons in the middle ages thought of their roofs as inverted boats ("Les Tours Inachevées" Raoul Verguez) Here in Monein, the roof of the church is often (wrongly) described as being built by sailor/carpenters "on the beach" It's a fascinating history

fourth
France
Local time: 07:11
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Nantes is famous for its shipbuilding, and I think in English people usually associate the term 'hangar' with aviation / NS OED: A shed, a shelter. Now spec., a building for housing aircraft, spacecraft, etc.
4 mins
  -> No, I don't think so Tony, I believe this can be a description of any large-floored open-sided building...agricultural, ship-building etc
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sheds


Explanation:
I think it probably is talking about the various dockside sheds (perhaps the open-sided ones?) — but I am only guessing!

A lofty structure of some kind, like the nave of a church, or your 'hall'

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Note added at 32 mins (2008-02-20 16:17:11 GMT)
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Pour la petite histoire...

Interestingly enough, I had never stopped to think that the use of 'nef' (nave, in a church) comes from the name of the boat (i.e. not the other way round), and the same root as 'naval' etc. — mustn't forget that early forms of cruck-beam construction (to create taller spaces) amounted in many ways to little more than an upturned ship's hull!

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-02-20 18:37:00 GMT)
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Whatever semantic arguments we might get into, current usage tends to reserve 'hangar' for aviation buildings only — any nautical person I know would laugh like a drain if I said that ships were built in hangars; I know there's a special name for places where you keep submarines (pens, isn't it?), but all I've ever heard in terms of shipbuilding is 'shed' — and sometimes, by a kind of inverted snobbery, 'boat shed', even if it's for ruddy great ships (cf. Navy usage of 'boat'!)



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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-02-20 18:45:46 GMT)
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The plural / singular issue is a little bit of a side issue: I inadvertently put it into the plural, as that's how it appears in the context given; however, I do note that Miranda had carefully asked her question in the singular. Mea culpa!

However, 4th's comment about the plural in "ships' sheds" is more important; general speaking, in EN, when a noun is used as to qualify another noun, the qualifer remains in the singular, and doesn't need to take the possessive 's; we talk about car repairs, not cars' repairs. One of the few exceptions to this is the dedicated expression "ship's captain", and oddly enough, "ship's biscuit" too! There are a number of other uses of the possessive, mainly aasociated with on-board personnel or equipment.

In any case, I don't feel that these particular 'sheds' need 'ship' attaching to them — perhaps to make them more exotic, one might refer to them as 'shipyard sheds'...

Tony M
France
Local time: 07:11
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1147

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Goward: Exactly, as the reference found by Agnès shows.
7 mins
  -> Thanks, David! Yes, great, Agnès's answer wasn't up when I posted.

agree  Michael GREEN: Seem my comment above (Agnes link is to the port, not the pont transbordeur) / absolutely right Tony ! see my corrected note to Agnes / must try not to do two things at once at the end of the day ...
15 mins
  -> Thanks Michael! Know the feeling all too well!

disagree  fourth: Tony, does this make it "Ships' Sheds"? And if you're talking open-sided, then don't you really mean "Hangar" ?! Also this is plural, old chap. And no again, it's not exclusively aviation at all.
1 hr
  -> At worst, it would be 'ship sheds' — But I think they're more likely 'construction sheds'; I insist, and OED agrees, that in EN (unlike FR!), hangar is primarily associated with aviation. In EN, nouns as qualifiers stay singular!!
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