KudoZ home » French to English » Construction / Civil Engineering

ouvrants

English translation: joinery

Advertisement

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:ouvrants
English translation:joinery
Entered by: Tony M
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

12:45 Dec 1, 2004
French to English translations [PRO]
Construction / Civil Engineering
French term or phrase: ouvrants
For woodworking - this is obviously refering to doors and windows, but is there a more general term in English other than windows and doors.
I saw that this term has already been discussed with regards to cars, but I haven't found any of the proposed answers suitably adapted to woodwork.
Any ideas?
Laura Robertson
France
Local time: 15:51
joinery - comments
Explanation:
I hate to contradict David, but "openings" refers to the holes in the wall ("ouverture" in French) into which one fits "ouvrants" (châssis ouvrants). IOW, the "ouvrant" is the mobile part of a window (as opposed to a "châssis fixe" or "fixed light") or door (a door, unlike a window, is necessarily "ouvrant", of course).

Thus, at the scale of a building envelope, an "ouvrant" is indeed a window or a door. On the scale of window frames alone, it is an "opening light".

Now, if you want a word that covers "doors and windows", "joinery" ("menuiserie") does a pretty good job, especially if they are external doors and windows (i.e. they are fitted into ouvertures/openings in the external walls), in which case "external joinery" refers almost exclusively to just that. Trouble is, not all joinery is "ouvrant" ...

A "casement" is necessarily hinged, and the word usually refers to windows, except in the case of "casement doors" ... which are otherwise known as "French windows", hence the confusion.

"Sash" would work nicely were it not for the fact that it really only applies to glazed frames, so would not apply to a solid wooden door, for example.

Someone once said (before the introduction of the euro) that the words in two languages were like the coins of the two countries concerned: if you filled a jar with coins from both countries and tipped them on the floor, the chances of two words meaning the same thing would be the same as that of having two coins of exactly the same size being positioned exactly on top of each other. If you imagine that the coins are the word, you see that what you get is isolated and overlapping meaning, or one meaning being broader or narrower than another, (practically) never a 100% precise match. Your question is a good example of this. You may simply have to approximate.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 38 mins (2004-12-01 17:24:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Make that \"Thus, at the scale of a building envelope, an \"ouvrant\" is indeed a window - a window that opens, not a fixed pane of glass - or a door\"
Selected response from:

xxxBourth
Local time: 15:51
Grading comment
This makes sense to me. Thanks again for your help.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Advertisement


Summary of answers provided
5joinery - commentsxxxBourth
3casements
Isabelle Bouchet
3openingsDavid Sirett


  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
openings


Explanation:
I think the generic used in English is "openings".


    Reference: http://www.flash.org/activity.cfm?currentPeril=1&activityID=...
David Sirett
Local time: 15:51
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 64
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

58 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
casements


Explanation:
-

Isabelle Bouchet
France
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
joinery - comments


Explanation:
I hate to contradict David, but "openings" refers to the holes in the wall ("ouverture" in French) into which one fits "ouvrants" (châssis ouvrants). IOW, the "ouvrant" is the mobile part of a window (as opposed to a "châssis fixe" or "fixed light") or door (a door, unlike a window, is necessarily "ouvrant", of course).

Thus, at the scale of a building envelope, an "ouvrant" is indeed a window or a door. On the scale of window frames alone, it is an "opening light".

Now, if you want a word that covers "doors and windows", "joinery" ("menuiserie") does a pretty good job, especially if they are external doors and windows (i.e. they are fitted into ouvertures/openings in the external walls), in which case "external joinery" refers almost exclusively to just that. Trouble is, not all joinery is "ouvrant" ...

A "casement" is necessarily hinged, and the word usually refers to windows, except in the case of "casement doors" ... which are otherwise known as "French windows", hence the confusion.

"Sash" would work nicely were it not for the fact that it really only applies to glazed frames, so would not apply to a solid wooden door, for example.

Someone once said (before the introduction of the euro) that the words in two languages were like the coins of the two countries concerned: if you filled a jar with coins from both countries and tipped them on the floor, the chances of two words meaning the same thing would be the same as that of having two coins of exactly the same size being positioned exactly on top of each other. If you imagine that the coins are the word, you see that what you get is isolated and overlapping meaning, or one meaning being broader or narrower than another, (practically) never a 100% precise match. Your question is a good example of this. You may simply have to approximate.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 38 mins (2004-12-01 17:24:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Make that \"Thus, at the scale of a building envelope, an \"ouvrant\" is indeed a window - a window that opens, not a fixed pane of glass - or a door\"

xxxBourth
Local time: 15:51
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4135
Grading comment
This makes sense to me. Thanks again for your help.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


Changes made by editors
Mar 31, 2011 - Changes made by Tony M:
Edited KOG entry<a href="/profile/39365">Laura Robertson's</a> old entry - "ouvrants" » "joinery - comments"


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search