KudoZ home » French to English » Cooking / Culinary

et sa verdure

English translation: with salad garnish

Advertisement

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:et sa verdure
English translation:with salad garnish
Entered by: PB Trans
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

02:02 Aug 3, 2006
French to English translations [Non-PRO]
Cooking / Culinary / menu (salad)
French term or phrase: et sa verdure
SALADES REPAS:

- CÉSAR AU POULET

- DE POULET LAQUÉ AU MIEL & SÉSAMES GRILLÉES

- JAMBON FROMAGE BRIE ET SA VERDURE

- DE CREVETTES & ASPERGES
PB Trans
Local time: 08:02
with green salad garnish
Explanation:
Both 'green' and 'garnish' could be left out

In fact, you ought probably to say just 'with lettuce', but I agree in advance that's not a very enticing way to express it for a menu!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2006-08-03 07:15:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or presumably, this is in fact a product name?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:32:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I don't think you ought to leave it out, but as I've suggested, playing it down with the use of a word like 'garnish', or as Cervin suggests, 'accompaniment' ought to do the trick...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:40:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In fact, 'salad accompaniment' gets over twice as many Ghits as 'accompanying salad', for what that's worth.

Much more importantly, it's to do with the question of epithet vs. attributive usage.

Many web hits use it in the sort of construction "the accompanying salad was copious", whereas the alternative word order tends to be used in sense that are closer to what we have here:
"with a herb and bean salad accompaniment"

In the same way, you might well say 'salad garnish' [55,000+ Ghits, as it happens], but wouldn't really say 'garnishing salad' [103, not all relevant]

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:44:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As a Brit, 'mixed greens' would give me a completely wrong idea of this. They often serve Brie and other cheeses on a bed of lettuce, which is almost certainly what they mean here. Adding the ham changes nothing. If they say 'verdure', it's precisely because they are trying to play it down — it's just "a bit of green stuff on your plate" — which is why I think the idea of garnish (EN sense, not FR!) conveys the same idea of a 'trimming'


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:49:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The point is, FR uses 'salade' in a different way from EN: it may be in the sense of some green leaves (salad greens, now I could live with THAT!) — you go to the shop to buy 'une salade' = a lettuce of some kind; and then also in the sense of a cold, mixed kind of dish, like a 'salade piemontaise', which is nothing like the kind of mixed salad ('salade composée') that we might expect in EN, i.e. as a whole dish in itself. Think of things like a Waldorf salad, which is more often served as some kind of accompaniment than as an entire dish in itself; unlike say a 'salade niçoise' or 'Caesar salad'.

It's a real nuance, but I don't think you should worry your head too much over what sounds to me just like 'a bed of lettuce'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:50:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Being fair, probably some kind of mixed green leaves, not just boring old Webb's Wonder...
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 09:02
Grading comment
Thank you! I decided to go with "salad garnish".
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Advertisement


Summary of answers provided
4 +4with green salad garnish
Tony M
3 +3accompanying saladMatthewLaSon
4 +1salad accompaniment
Cervin
4 -2and greens ..
Carmen Schultz
4 -4with greenery
swisstell


Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -4
with greenery


Explanation:
"sa" verdure is a way of expressing that the greenery coming with the ham and cheese is the appropriate type. Basically, however, it ought to do to simply call it ... see above. Unless you want to say "and its greenery" which, in my opinion, is a bit odd.

swisstell
Italy
Local time: 09:02
Native speaker of: German

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Kim Metzger: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, greenery: 1a. Green foliage; verdure. b. Such foliage used for decoration. 2. A place where plants are grown. http://www.bartleby.com/61/72/G0257200.html
1 hr

disagree  xxxPRen: Your explanation is good, but "with greenery" is not at all idiomatic.
1 hr

neutral  Carmen Schultz: perhaps something like "greens" or the like ...
2 hrs

disagree  Tony M: 'greenery' is not at all idiomatic
4 hrs

disagree  xxxdf49f: hmm... sounds like they're putting the center-piece bouquet into the plate... :-)
8 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
accompanying salad


Explanation:
Hello,

It seems that "sa verdure" is simply the the salad served with the ham and Brie cheese. Hence, its "accompanying salad."

I hope this helps.


    Reference: http://www.uktvfood.co.uk/index.cfm?uktv=search.results&crit...
MatthewLaSon
Local time: 03:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxPRen: Yes, but have you even seen "accompanying salad" on a menu?
21 mins
  -> I sure have, although it's not the most common term. It works, nonetheless

agree  Ineke Hardy: I would just say "with salad"
33 mins
  -> Thanks

neutral  Tony M: As Paula says, 'accompanying salad' isn't terribly idiomatic for use on a menu, and gets remarkably few Google hits
3 hrs
  -> It is said. I've seen it used before, but it's not the most common way of saying it

agree  juliebarba: there's nothing wrong with accompanying salad...it's all over the net
4 hrs
  -> Thanks. I'm glad you see that.

agree  Carmen Schultz
7 hrs
  -> Thanks, Carman
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
salad accompaniment


Explanation:
Just a variation!

Cervin
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Yes, that's another nice idea — as long as it doesn't imply too much? It's only a bit of limp lettuce, after all! // It's all about word order, and what sounds most natural and idiomatic
35 mins
  -> Thank you, Tony-Dusty

neutral  Carmen Schultz: you're pretty much repeating what Icetrance already said earlier
3 hrs
  -> see notes above from Tony-Dusty and Paula
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
with green salad garnish


Explanation:
Both 'green' and 'garnish' could be left out

In fact, you ought probably to say just 'with lettuce', but I agree in advance that's not a very enticing way to express it for a menu!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2006-08-03 07:15:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or presumably, this is in fact a product name?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:32:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I don't think you ought to leave it out, but as I've suggested, playing it down with the use of a word like 'garnish', or as Cervin suggests, 'accompaniment' ought to do the trick...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:40:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In fact, 'salad accompaniment' gets over twice as many Ghits as 'accompanying salad', for what that's worth.

Much more importantly, it's to do with the question of epithet vs. attributive usage.

Many web hits use it in the sort of construction "the accompanying salad was copious", whereas the alternative word order tends to be used in sense that are closer to what we have here:
"with a herb and bean salad accompaniment"

In the same way, you might well say 'salad garnish' [55,000+ Ghits, as it happens], but wouldn't really say 'garnishing salad' [103, not all relevant]

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:44:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As a Brit, 'mixed greens' would give me a completely wrong idea of this. They often serve Brie and other cheeses on a bed of lettuce, which is almost certainly what they mean here. Adding the ham changes nothing. If they say 'verdure', it's precisely because they are trying to play it down — it's just "a bit of green stuff on your plate" — which is why I think the idea of garnish (EN sense, not FR!) conveys the same idea of a 'trimming'


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:49:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The point is, FR uses 'salade' in a different way from EN: it may be in the sense of some green leaves (salad greens, now I could live with THAT!) — you go to the shop to buy 'une salade' = a lettuce of some kind; and then also in the sense of a cold, mixed kind of dish, like a 'salade piemontaise', which is nothing like the kind of mixed salad ('salade composée') that we might expect in EN, i.e. as a whole dish in itself. Think of things like a Waldorf salad, which is more often served as some kind of accompaniment than as an entire dish in itself; unlike say a 'salade niçoise' or 'Caesar salad'.

It's a real nuance, but I don't think you should worry your head too much over what sounds to me just like 'a bed of lettuce'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2006-08-03 11:50:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Being fair, probably some kind of mixed green leaves, not just boring old Webb's Wonder...


Tony M
France
Local time: 09:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 382
Grading comment
Thank you! I decided to go with "salad garnish".

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Claire Cox: I think I'd leave out the "green", but salad garnish sounds good.
42 mins
  -> Thanks, Claire! Just a 'trades descriptions' thing, really, if it is ONLY 'lettuce', since in EN 'salad' implies 'mixed salad' in a way that 'salade' does not do in FR

agree  Mark Nathan
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Mark!

agree  Rachel Ward
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Rachel!

agree  xxxdf49f
4 hrs
  -> Merci, Dominique !
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
and greens ..


Explanation:
this means green leafy vegetables such as lettuce, spinach, etc.

greens:

Adapted From: WordNet 2.0 Copyright 2003 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.

greens
A noun
1 greens, green, leafy vegetable

any of various leafy plants or their leaves and stems eaten as vegetables
Category Tree:
entity
╚substance; matter
╚solid
╚food
╚produce; green goods; green groceries; garden truck
╚vegetable; veggie
╚greens, green, leafy vegetable
╚spinach
╚French sorrel
╚sorrel; common sorrel
╚turnip greens
╚wild spinach
╚lamb's-quarter; pigweed; wild spinach
╚dandelion green
╚salad green; salad greens
╚chard; Swiss chard; spinach beet; leaf beet
╚beet green
╚sprout
╚chop-suey greens



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2006-08-03 10:57:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To Tony-Dusty and Cervin: see the note below about use of GREENS in US(as I had indicated earlier)

from Wordreference.com:
verdure:
verdure nf verdure
verdure nf greenery
verdure nf greenness
verdure nf green (greenness (countryside))
verdure (luxuriance) nf verdure (luxuriance)
verdure (plantes vertes) US npl greens



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2006-08-03 13:12:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Main Entry: 3green
Function: noun
1 : a color whose hue is somewhat less yellow than that of growing fresh grass or of the emerald or is that of the part of the spectrum lying between blue and yellow
2 : something of a green color
3 : green vegetation: as a plural : leafy parts of plants for use as decoration b plural (1) : leafy herbs (as spinach, dandelions, or Swiss chard) that are cooked as a vegetable : POTHERBS (2) : GREEN VEGETABLES

Carmen Schultz
Local time: 02:02
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: I agree "with greens" is a possibility. It really depends on the context as it can mean leafy vegetables. But here, it is clear that it is a salad... so I may use it. Here is a reference of a restaurant in California: http://www.glenelleninn.com/menu.htm


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: Not really ideal or idiomatic here either, I'm afraid. 'Greens' has such connotations of over-cooked cabbage for school dinners... // Fair enough, but definitely NOT suitable for UK use! (almost always means 'cooked...')
1 hr
  -> in US side we use greens for lettuce, endives, etc.

disagree  Cervin: see Tony-Dusty's explanation!
2 hrs
  ->  see the note above about use of GREENS in US(as I had indicated earlier to Tony-Dusty)-Asker has not specified what audience(country) this is for-- Supposing it's for Canada, use of greens as in US is also understood.

disagree  xxxdf49f: greens in US refers to COOKED leafy veg. in Southern cuisine (collard, spinach, mustard....) and not to fresh raw produce (see http://southernfood.about.com/library/weekly/aa031100a.htm for greens in US)// US greens=eaten cooked #"verdure" on French menu
6 hrs
  -> you're actually reiterating my answer bec these greens can be used in an assortment (a mix of spinach, lettuce, sometimes other ones--whatever is indigenous to the region) to use as decoration and not necessarily a salad!So your disagree is erroneous!

neutral  writeaway: it's used a dietary term-eat more greens, but not on a menu
9 hrs
  -> not so: in Texas, I see it often when the restaurant offers any kind of greens: whether collard, mustard, or whatever they have (Greens are a Southern specialty-e.g., when not referring to greens as in food decor)

agree  French Foodie: funny, I'm a culinary translator, and I use "on a bed of greens" ALL the time. Very common sight on menus in NA. To me, it definitely implies raw produce.
4 days
  -> thanks-- now I know I am not crazy for proposing this! In my neck of the woods it is used a lot also!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO
PRO (1): French Foodie
Non-PRO (1): xxxdf49f


Return to KudoZ list


Changes made by editors
Aug 3, 2006 - Changes made by JCEC:
LevelPRO » Non-PRO


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search