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navets longs

English translation: bits and bobs

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18:29 Oct 27, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Cooking / Culinary
French term or phrase: navets longs
Hi
I'm translating a cookery book, and one of the recipes contains 'navets longs'. I think they are what we call 'mooli' or 'Chinese radishes' in English but I can't seem to confirm this. Can anyone help?
With thanks.
Lizz Poulter
English translation:bits and bobs
Explanation:
My research:

On en recense plus d'une trentaine d'espèces partout dans le monde, qui sont récoltés deux fois par an, au printemps-été et en hiver, en fonction de la période de semis. Produit sous châssis ou en pleine terre, c'est le navet précoce, encore appelé navet "de mai", qui est le plus courant sur nos étals. Les variétés les plus fréquentes sont :
- le Milan, rond et aplati, blanc à col violet.
- le Nancy et le Norfolk, tout ronds.
- le Nantais et le Croissy, allongés et BLANCS.

Plus rarement, on peut avoir la chance de croiser le navet jaune appelé "Boule d'or" dont la chair jaune est fine et tendre. Il existe également un navet long et noir, tout aussi rare, dont le goût si fin permet de le déguster cru ou râpé.
http://www.linternaute.com/femmes/cuisine/encyclopedie/fiche...

Picture of "navet long" (like a WHITE carrot) at:
recettes.faciles66.free.fr/legumes.php

Turnip rapeseed, COWHORN TURNIP (Brassica napa, B. campestris), also biennial, is not so good for weed control, but excellent for green manure organic ...
graze-l.witt.ac.nz/pipermail/graze-l/1997-November/010187.html

The COW-HORN TURNIP is a variety distinguished by its ENORMOUS ELONGATED ROOT, which constitutes the bulk of the organic material for turning under. These ROOTS ARE 2 FEET OR MORE LONG and 2½ TO 3 INCHES IN DIAMETER with 3 or 4 inches of the root above ground. As cowhorn turnips are commonly seeded in late summer and are not winter hardy, the roots are dead and decaying when turned under.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010160.Pieters.pdf

It just might be the Asian thing (Brassica rapa var rapifera):
http://www.kitazawaseed.com/seeds_long_turnip.html

Note that whether called "radish" or "turnip", the Asian "daikon" is a member of the Brassica family:
Members of the Brassica family include a wide range of horticultural crops (eg. cabbage, mustard, rocket, pak choy, daikon, broccoli) all of which contain ...
www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=694_75

See picture of Daikon :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikon

Pictures of several types of "long white turnips" at :
http://www.graines-baumaux.fr/produit.asp?numsouscategorie=1...
http://www.le-paysan.com/potager-view.asp?esp=navet

Following suggest your "navet long" are a purely French thing:

http://www.b-and-t-world-seeds.com/cart_print.asp?species=Br...
TURNIP BLANC DE CROISSY. Raymond Blanc recommended this to me, it''s lovely eaten small and raw in salad or cooked, glazed to eat with red meat. Sowing: ...
www.sarahraven.com/.../static/product_catalogue/index.cfm?f...

Half-long Croissy By 1867 (Vilmorin). “Skin white, smooth; flesh very white, tender sugary, and very agreeably flavoured. A very good early variety and a great favourite with the Parisian market gardeners. It is one of the best kinds for forcing.” [ ... ]
Long White Vertus or Jersey Navet By 1859. "An oblong white Turnip, of sweet mild flavour, good for sowing to stand the Winter".
http://thomasetty.co.uk/vegetables/seeds_brassicas.pdf

My conclusion: "navet long" is a French thing, and the best you can do is translate it literally, possibly adding "white", making France "the land of the long white turnip", as opposed to NZ or Aotearoa, the Land of the Long White Cloud.
Selected response from:

xxxBourth
Local time: 18:25
Grading comment
This is clear and exhaustive. thanks very much.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +4long turnipskelime
4 +2bits and bobsxxxBourth
5TURNIP VERTUS (MARTEAU/MARTELLO) /Jersey Navet
Nina Iordache
5tankard turnipxxxVIV FATHIMAN
4 +1long rooted white turnipsjean-jacques alexandre
3 +1daikon
Sheila Wilson
3black turnip
Miranda Joubioux
3pudding OR tankard turnip
Tony M
3 -1Parsnips
Jenny Forbes


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
tankard turnip


Explanation:
I knew this term

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2007-10-27 18:34:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

well, tankard turnips, I've translated it before

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2007-10-27 19:05:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think so, though I'm not 100% sure. I've also heard of 'purple top turnip', and even 'long turnip'.

xxxVIV FATHIMAN
Local time: 11:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
Notes to answerer
Asker: Is this a BrE term? I've never heard it (although I did find it when researching this problem).


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Sheila Wilson: purple tops are round. Is 'long turnip' really used in England? - that could certainly be the answer!
1 hr
  -> I've heard of it but to be honest I couldn't say for sure that it is used in British English, and having googled it, only American websites seem to use the term
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
long turnips


Explanation:
I live in Marseilles (South of France) and it is very common to see here long turnips (totally white) as well as round turnips (pink around the stem). They have about the same taste. Long turnip has nothing to do at all with black radish !


The Long Turnip. (B. rapa oblonga DC.)
This race of turnip differs from the preceding in having a long or oblong tuber tapering to the radicle.


Example sentence(s):
  • http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/sturtevant/brassica-camp.htm
kelime
France
Local time: 18:25
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: I think you're right, though I'm not sure how commonly this term is used to refer to the right vegetable in the UK? since it is clearly also used to refer to the Chinese radish type too.
1 hr
  -> Hello Tony, thanks for your comments. As this is for a recipe, normally the long turnip should be cooked while radishes are generally eaten raw, which makes a bit of a difference.

agree  xxxBourth: Now there's a turnip for the books! / That's news to me! Try Googling "turn up for the books".
2 hrs
  -> http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2221549 : that's where I got the football story. But now I understand that it's about horse race and betting. Now I got your joke for good !

agree  Rachel Fell: I think I'd add "white" (i.e. not black) http://www.gourmetseed.com/Turnip_Seed.0.html - football -?\\in the garden but not the kitchen/restaurant probably
14 hrs
  -> Thank you Rachel, I had a look at your link : long turnip can be called "jersey navet".

agree  Jacqui Audouy: When I lived in Brive I ried to make parsnip recipes with long white turnips (which I'd never seen before - or since for that matter) and couldn't figure out why they tasted like turnips...which they DEFINITELY are, not radish AT ALL!!
2 days2 hrs
  -> Thanks Jacqui !
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
daikon


Explanation:
I'm not a radish expert but I'm very familiar with "radis long" as they're in all the local supermarkets. My research pointed to daikon (something I'd never heard of) or Japanese radish, and the pictures certainly look identical.

Still looking into tghe other suggestions.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-10-27 19:52:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Apparently, daikon, mooli and winter radish are all synonyms. I remember mooli from when I lived in England, but I never knew what they were - I remember now that they were long, white tapering carrot-like things, so I think you're right with your suggestion.

Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 17:25
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 56
Notes to answerer
Asker: I too live in Languedoc - i the Gard, and saw them in the supermarket this morning. Thank you very much -you confirmed my hunch, I just need to decide between the three options now!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Yes, all is very true; but I don't think this is talking about the same vegetable at all.
1 hr

agree  xxxBourth: Could well be, daikon is a brassica like the turnip ...
2 hrs

neutral  Melissa McMahon: Agree with Tony: a daikon does look like a bit like a long turnip, but you'd need to show that the French call that...
9 hrs
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
navet long
pudding OR tankard turnip


Explanation:
GDT suggests 'tankard turnip', and this article seems to confirm the validity of that term.

I think 'Chinese radish' is a different veg: what is called 'radis noir' in FR

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-10-27 19:44:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I've not heard it either, but then I've also never seen one in a veg shop in the UK!

The site mentioned below is a .uk one, not that this means it is a specifically BE term, of course.

(by the way, the prev. ref. above is from a US site, but in any case, as you may have realized, it was an extract from an historical text anyway [but British, I suspect?])

Agricultural terms - Archived Genealogy Forums and Posts-

Tankard turnip- long rooted turnip
To thack- to thatch ...

www.ancestryaid.co.uk/boards/archive/index.php/t-236-Agricu...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-10-27 19:59:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Quoting from the botanicus ref. above:

"The pudding or tankard Turnip, has a white bulb which rises from eight to twelve inches high"

Nothing about that leads me to believe it is round, on the contrary, long seems more likely — unless this thing is as big as a football!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-10-27 21:08:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This rather fascinating historical document makes a clear connection between 'long' and 'tankard', and it certainly seems as if the latter term may be more historical than current — tho cf that the farmworks PDF document mentioned here, although sparse, would seem to suggest it is regarded as a current crop:

Greenstar Crop List.pub

Tankard turnip.
Chickpeas.
Kale.
Raddicchio.
...

www.farmworks.com/support/Greenstar_crop_list.pdf


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-10-27 21:18:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It seems that, even though Chinese radishes are sometimes rather inaccurately called 'long turnips', they really refer to 2 entirely different types of vegetable

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-10-27 21:33:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The original 'Sturtevant's Edible Plants' [1919] (quoted in Genevieve's ref.) makes such fascinating reading, I couldn't resist quoting it again here, complete with the URL:

STURTEVANTS EDIBLE PLANTS OF THE WORLD

THE LONG TURNIP.
(B. rapa oblonga DC.)
This race of turnip differs from the preceding in having a long or oblong tuber tapering to the radicle.

www.swsbm.com/Ephemera/Sturtevants_Edible_Plants.pdf



    Reference: http://www.botanicus.org/primeocr/botanicus3/b12030272/31753...
Tony M
France
Local time: 18:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 382
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for responding so quickly. Do you know if it's used in BrE? I've never heard it.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Sheila Wilson: I'm not convinced - your link describes it as a bulb hence round//our comments crossed Tony, but I can only find references to tankard turnips as animal feed or in old texts - do people eat them today?
56 mins
  -> I suspect possibly not in the UK, though clearly they do in FR; cf parsnips, popular in the UK, but relegated to animal fodder in FR until quite recently.

neutral  xxxBourth: All very complicated. I'd go for your "long turnip". ;-) Is that your "dernier mot"? And I thought a "navet long" was a tedious film./Be grateful I spared you my puDEnDAL FURs.
3 hrs
  -> Thanks Alex! Yes, genevieve's idea seems to be the best translation solution in this instance / We were enjoying a serious botanical discussion here, then you had to turnip with your DREADFUL puns ;-))

neutral  Rachel Fell: don't tankard turnips seem to be for fodder (not heard of them before)? says they grow good and big, i.e. not so nice for humans! Long French, Ital. & Japanese turnip too (not radish I think) in link I gave Genevieve\\Yes, could be
15 hrs
  -> I think they're mainly/only used for fodder in the UK, but I think the name DOES refer to the same TYPE of turnip, eaten in FR
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
bits and bobs


Explanation:
My research:

On en recense plus d'une trentaine d'espèces partout dans le monde, qui sont récoltés deux fois par an, au printemps-été et en hiver, en fonction de la période de semis. Produit sous châssis ou en pleine terre, c'est le navet précoce, encore appelé navet "de mai", qui est le plus courant sur nos étals. Les variétés les plus fréquentes sont :
- le Milan, rond et aplati, blanc à col violet.
- le Nancy et le Norfolk, tout ronds.
- le Nantais et le Croissy, allongés et BLANCS.

Plus rarement, on peut avoir la chance de croiser le navet jaune appelé "Boule d'or" dont la chair jaune est fine et tendre. Il existe également un navet long et noir, tout aussi rare, dont le goût si fin permet de le déguster cru ou râpé.
http://www.linternaute.com/femmes/cuisine/encyclopedie/fiche...

Picture of "navet long" (like a WHITE carrot) at:
recettes.faciles66.free.fr/legumes.php

Turnip rapeseed, COWHORN TURNIP (Brassica napa, B. campestris), also biennial, is not so good for weed control, but excellent for green manure organic ...
graze-l.witt.ac.nz/pipermail/graze-l/1997-November/010187.html

The COW-HORN TURNIP is a variety distinguished by its ENORMOUS ELONGATED ROOT, which constitutes the bulk of the organic material for turning under. These ROOTS ARE 2 FEET OR MORE LONG and 2½ TO 3 INCHES IN DIAMETER with 3 or 4 inches of the root above ground. As cowhorn turnips are commonly seeded in late summer and are not winter hardy, the roots are dead and decaying when turned under.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010160.Pieters.pdf

It just might be the Asian thing (Brassica rapa var rapifera):
http://www.kitazawaseed.com/seeds_long_turnip.html

Note that whether called "radish" or "turnip", the Asian "daikon" is a member of the Brassica family:
Members of the Brassica family include a wide range of horticultural crops (eg. cabbage, mustard, rocket, pak choy, daikon, broccoli) all of which contain ...
www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=694_75

See picture of Daikon :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikon

Pictures of several types of "long white turnips" at :
http://www.graines-baumaux.fr/produit.asp?numsouscategorie=1...
http://www.le-paysan.com/potager-view.asp?esp=navet

Following suggest your "navet long" are a purely French thing:

http://www.b-and-t-world-seeds.com/cart_print.asp?species=Br...
TURNIP BLANC DE CROISSY. Raymond Blanc recommended this to me, it''s lovely eaten small and raw in salad or cooked, glazed to eat with red meat. Sowing: ...
www.sarahraven.com/.../static/product_catalogue/index.cfm?f...

Half-long Croissy By 1867 (Vilmorin). “Skin white, smooth; flesh very white, tender sugary, and very agreeably flavoured. A very good early variety and a great favourite with the Parisian market gardeners. It is one of the best kinds for forcing.” [ ... ]
Long White Vertus or Jersey Navet By 1859. "An oblong white Turnip, of sweet mild flavour, good for sowing to stand the Winter".
http://thomasetty.co.uk/vegetables/seeds_brassicas.pdf

My conclusion: "navet long" is a French thing, and the best you can do is translate it literally, possibly adding "white", making France "the land of the long white turnip", as opposed to NZ or Aotearoa, the Land of the Long White Cloud.

xxxBourth
Local time: 18:25
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 88
Grading comment
This is clear and exhaustive. thanks very much.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Yes, I would add only one point: that the daikon appears to have a quite different botanical name (though still belonging to the broader family of the brassicas)
21 mins

agree  kelime: Nex time I go to the greengrocer's I'll ask for bits and bobs, I'm sure I'll get exactly what I need !
4 days
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
long rooted white turnips


Explanation:
this is how the Larousse Gastronomique defines it, awarding it less flavor than the more commun flat rooted kind

jean-jacques alexandre
France
Local time: 18:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Rachel Fell: long white turnips - not that they're usually available in the UK http://www.localharvest.org/store/item.jsp?id=7683
1 hr
  -> thanks Rachel
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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
TURNIP VERTUS (MARTEAU/MARTELLO) /Jersey Navet


Explanation:
An old variety of turnips. White (long) turnips


    Reference: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://felcopruners.n...
Nina Iordache
Romania
Local time: 19:25
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian
PRO pts in category: 3
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44 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
black turnip


Explanation:
As I'm not familiar with the "navet long", I decided to go google hunting.
http://www.linternaute.com/femmes/cuisine/encyclopedie/fiche...
The above link says it's black.
I then went to the Larousse Gastronomique, which says the following:
"Les variétés de navets potagers sont classées selon leur forme : le milan, rond, blanc à collet violet ; le nantais et le croissy, allongés et blancs. Il existe aussi des navets jaunes (dits "boule d'or", très savoureux) et noirs (long ou ronds)."

http://www.outilgreen.com/navet-noir-long-calluire-p-349.htm...
http://www.aujardindedgar.fr/produit-3282-NAVET-NOIR-LONG.ht...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navet
http://saint-pons-de-thomieres.perso.orange.fr/pardailhan.ht...

http://www.whatamieating.com/?s=black turnip

They look very like black radishes to me, but apparently they are not the same.

Quand je cherche tankard / pudding turnip, je ne trouve que des références agricoles.

Cependant, j'ai également trouvé le navet long et blanc.
http://www.terroirduvaldesaone.com/produits/complements.html

Hope this helps.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 45 mins (2007-10-27 19:14:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops, mixing French and English there - sorry!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2007-10-28 17:47:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My research showed that the "navet long" (black), is sweet unlike the black radish. So they are not the same thing. The important thing to know is whether they are referring to black or white turnips. If indeed they are white, well then I'd opt for daikon. The thing is that we don't have enough context. If we knew what kind of recipe it was it might help.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2007-10-28 17:59:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.fondazioneslowfood.it/eng/arca/dettaglio.lasso?co...
http://gitelagarrigueherault.over-blog.com/article-5723143.h...
http://atable.midiblogs.com/archive/2006/11/15/le-navet-de-p...
http://www.mechinaud-saveurs.com/php/produit_fiche.php?id=20...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day13 hrs (2007-10-29 07:37:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Following your answer, I think I'd choose a white variety then and to avoid confusion I'd just call it long white turnip (It's likely to be the Jersey navet IMO).

Miranda Joubioux
Local time: 18:25
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24
Notes to answerer
Asker: The recipe is for scallops with vegeatbles, the others being carrots and courgettes. In my local supermarket (France) they are white, and look to a non-cook like mooli, but as I've never eaten mooli nor navet long, I'm no frther ahead.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: but I believe the 'navet long' 'long radish' (white) is different from the 'radis noir' 'black radish' (also long!) / But that's my whole point: they DON'T! The ordinary 'navet long' is white...
30 mins
  -> I only said they *looked like* the black radish.

neutral  Sheila Wilson: Although the radis noir is long too, I think the recipe would say noir - it's not a common veg
41 mins
  -> I only said they *looked like* the black radish.

neutral  jean-jacques alexandre: As Tony says they're 2 different things : taste, aspect ...
12 hrs
  -> I only said they *looked like* the black radish.
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6 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Parsnips


Explanation:
I know I'm much too late - but I think this might be what are known in the UK as parsnips. I remember introducing a French friend to these in London once (an excellent cook, of course). Her first reaction - what foreigners often say about one another's food - was "Oh, we only feed those to animals!", but she found them quite delicious and later served them at dinners of her own.


Jenny Forbes
Local time: 17:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: No, those would be 'panais', and are not at all the same thing as the 'navets long' you find in shops over here.
4 mins
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