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groupe homogène, autonome

English translation: students of similar ability, able to work independently as a group

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:groupe homogène, autonome
English translation:students of similar ability, able to work independently as a group
Entered by: Kelvin Wu
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18:48 Mar 19, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Education / Pedagogy / comment on report card
French term or phrase: groupe homogène, autonome
I am translating a high school report card.

The student received a grade of 13 in the class "Ed.civiq.juridiq.soc." The class average is 11,6 and the highest grade in the class is 17,5. In the box for remarks, the teacher has written the following:

"*Groupe homogène, autonome* mais très vite découragé et peu débrouillard. Le dossier est bien présenté, retravaillé, clair mais il est assez pauvre et plein de coquilles. Oral correct."

Thanks!
Kelvin Wu
Local time: 03:08
students of similar ability, able to work independently as a group
Explanation:
As an ex-teacher I think this is what is meant; and this is the wordy way we would have expressed it! I think the group has been given an overall grade and it suggests that though they weren't constantly need ing the teacher's help/intervention, their dossier wasn't particularly brilliant! Lots of nice neat copying but otherwise....

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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-03-19 23:08:59 GMT)
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I really can't tell. It seems to me that the teacher assumes that the reader knows that this subject was graded on the basis of a group presentation. It's the grammar of the French sentence that leads me to think the whole comment is about the group presentation. I know i've often ha

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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-03-19 23:11:33 GMT)
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oops, what happened there?I was saying that I've often had to write similar, individual reports based on an a grade awarded to a group as a whole. Nothiong in the comment suggests reference to an individual : no names, no pronouns!!
Selected response from:

Jacqui Audouy
France
Local time: 09:08
Grading comment
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I did not realize homogène would be so hard to translate. Thanks, Jacqui.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +1nfg
Sheila Wilson
4 +1homogeneous group, able to work on their own (no need for assistance)
Drmanu49
3 +1students of similar ability, able to work independently as a group
Jacqui Audouy
3 +1independent-minded member of an otherwise homogeneous groupJim Tucker
4Homogeneous group, autonomous...
Olli Leroy
3autonomous group with similar level
suezen


Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


32 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Homogeneous group, autonomous...


Explanation:
I don't think that the homogenous is necessarily intended to contrast with the autonome part. I think that it is more important to highlight the fact that although this pupil is easily discouraged and doesn't easily come up with (the right) solutions, he ís (in what way, I don't know) autonomous. So, maybe this means that pupil can form own opinions, can make choices for himself, etc. As if the teacher is saying: He's not a complete loss.


Olli Leroy
Other
Local time: 08:08
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in DutchDutch

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jim Tucker: ok but then you want the semicolon after "group". The comma won't do, because then "autonomous" would refer to the group. (sounds vaguely familiar....)
4 mins
  -> It seems like the teacher is summarizing aspects.
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45 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
independent-minded member of an otherwise homogeneous group


Explanation:
taking another stab

Jim Tucker
United States
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ingeborg Gowans: it is really hard to get some sense of the original, but this version seems to be more to the point; the student himself shows some bright spots, whereas the group as a whole doesn't seem too keenl a lot of conjecturing here, I guess
6 mins

neutral  Olli Leroy: Nice restab :) However,as long as the context remains as vague as it is, I'm not convinced of the intended contrast with the homogeneous group; we still don't know what this homogeneity refers to. Is it the autonomy, the language skills, skin colour?...
24 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
homogeneous group, able to work on their own (no need for assistance)


Explanation:
No student is out of line eiher too good or too bad and they can all do their work without continuous assistance given by the teacher or others.

Drmanu49
France
Local time: 09:08
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 292

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  katsy: after much, much pondering and re-reading.... able to work on their own = much better than autonomous. Agree with your explanation and that of Jacqui
1 hr
  -> Thank you.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
nfg


Explanation:
Not for grading but I just wanted to add a couple of links in support of the similar ability meaning of homogène, as it has been contested

http://wwwedu.ge.ch/dip/ifmes/Ressources/ProdPed/IFMES_TFFI_...
Je me suisconcentré sur l'étude d'un critère particulier, c'est-à-dire l'étude comparative de groupeshomogènes et hétérogènes. Par homogène j'entends un groupe où tous les membres ont le même niveau.

http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/frenchprograms/resources/lexique_e...
ability grouping répartition en classes homogènes


Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 08:08
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 107

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  katsy: wrote my comment below, without realising yours was here!!
1 hr
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
autonomous group with similar level


Explanation:
think you have to be slightly roundabout if you want to avoid using homogeneous, otherwise you get
autonomous and homogeneous group...not so pretty!


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Note added at 18 mins (2007-03-19 19:07:15 GMT)
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yes, I see what you mean Kelvin ... it's not very clear, you're right. I'm wondering if the dossier presented is a group effort which would explain why the teacher has presented the wording in this way. This is very common practice today and would fit in with the context

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-19 21:33:30 GMT)
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not sure if I was very clear ... I would imagine that the class was divided into groups and each group had to present a 'dossier'. So the group effort is being judged as well as the individual.
As a former teacher, this is how I understand it and how we tend to grade. It is a very common strategy to have less individual marking ...!!!

suezen
Local time: 09:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 234

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Olli Leroy: Similar level? How was that inferred? Very often in education homogeneity also refers to the fact that you've got a class full of either white, monolingual, coloured or bilingual pupils...
12 mins
  -> well if you look in the R&C you'll find that as a translation by the way ... I wrote the not so pretty before seeing your answer ... sorry!

neutral  katsy: can confirm that 'homogène' in this context means of a similar level// see above my thoughts on 'autonome'. Thanks, that's really useful! I've often wondered: 'autonome' being such a buzz word in French schools, if autonomous was not just a gallicism
3 hrs
  -> thanks ...sorry Katsy ... I was just curious ... no problem ... but autonomous would certainly be the term used in teaching circles :-)

agree  Sheila Wilson: This is very common - the teacher's talking of the group of which this kid is a member
14 hrs
  -> thanks Sheila! Exactly what I think :-)
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
students of similar ability, able to work independently as a group


Explanation:
As an ex-teacher I think this is what is meant; and this is the wordy way we would have expressed it! I think the group has been given an overall grade and it suggests that though they weren't constantly need ing the teacher's help/intervention, their dossier wasn't particularly brilliant! Lots of nice neat copying but otherwise....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2007-03-19 23:08:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I really can't tell. It seems to me that the teacher assumes that the reader knows that this subject was graded on the basis of a group presentation. It's the grammar of the French sentence that leads me to think the whole comment is about the group presentation. I know i've often ha

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2007-03-19 23:11:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

oops, what happened there?I was saying that I've often had to write similar, individual reports based on an a grade awarded to a group as a whole. Nothiong in the comment suggests reference to an individual : no names, no pronouns!!

Jacqui Audouy
France
Local time: 09:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I did not realize homogène would be so hard to translate. Thanks, Jacqui.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Jacqui, Is it your belief that all of the teacher's remarks are about the students as a group? I was under the impression that the dossier being referred to was that of a single student's, the one to whom this report card was issued. Essentially I would like to know whether Jim Tucker's answer is completely off base. Thanks!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sheila Wilson
13 hrs
  -> Thanks Sheila!
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