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Ecole Professionnelle

English translation: Further Education College/University/Vocational Education Institution but no one-size fits all

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:Ecole Professionnelle
English translation:Further Education College/University/Vocational Education Institution but no one-size fits all
Entered by: French2English
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07:55 Sep 19, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Education / Pedagogy / Education; qualifications
French term or phrase: Ecole Professionnelle
I am currently researching several French education terms (having been educated in the UK, I always find the French system quite daunting!) for a presentation, which simply lists certain educational establishments and qualifications. I am sure that a fellow Prozian can tell me more quickly than I can find out (and I am looking, right now!) the difference between:

* Ecole de Commerce (business college, business school?)

and

* Ecole Professionnelle (BTS) ou IUT

This is how the terms appear in my document.
I know that BTS is Brevet Technicien Superieur, i.e. vocational training certificate) and IUT = Institut Universitaire de Technologie or an Institute of Technology - it's the Ecole Professionnelle bit that's the problem - how is it different from Ecole de Commerce?

If anyone could help me to understand the difference I would be very grateful - and pardon my ignorance - I don't even completely understand the UK system any more - everything has changed so much!
French2English
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:32
Further Education College/University/Vocational Education Institution but no one-size fits all
Explanation:
In the UK, what used to be a polytechnic, which provided vocational training is now a university. This doesn't help resolve our dilemma. The Egide site is generally deemed to be a good basis for translation but however hard you look, you'll only find Professional University Institutes in countries outside the UK. Another alternative in the UK is Postsecondary higher education institutes or vocational training institions.
Note that in France the IUT and BTS used to be a 2-year course but all the schools are now looking to integrate a 3rd year to make it a 3-year course in order to meet the requirements of the Bologna Agreement. Here are some links which you may find helpful
Atlantis is based on the development of a multilateral consortium of postsecondary higher education educational or vocational training institutions or ...
http://ec.europa.eu/education/programmes/eu-usa/index_en.htm...
The French system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_France
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:-wTEuTDfnE0J:www.egide....
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:mXTD5At-WUMJ:www.patrim...
Grenoble IUT1 offers three-year university degree courses in engineering technology with the first phase leading to the DUT (Diplôme Universitaire de Technologie) at the end of four semesters of intensive study. Successful applicants for the second phase, study for a further 9 months for the Licence Professionnelle, focused on more professional aspects of the overall training.
NEW ! International degrees at the Grenoble IUT opening in September 2007.
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:ZymDUcIonTMJ:www-iut.uj...
http://209.85.129.104/search?
For the UK system
q=cache:S5kF2kLhYkYJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_education+UK+university+institute+technology+vocational+education&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytechnic#United_Kingdom
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:Vk1ARaEhnqsJ:en.wikiped...
West Thames College is a successful medium-sized college of further and higher education based in Hounslow. We specialise in professional and specialist vocational training providing students with the skills, practical experience, opportunities and support to help them succeed. Our highly practical qualifications are taught in state of the art facilities by lecturers that are industry professionals with up to date knowledge and skills and access to great contacts. For further information visit www.west-thames.ac.uk.
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:GDw_TPgl0NEJ:www.westlo...
General vocational further education college located in South West ... We deliver high quality undergraduate, postgraduate and professional education and ...
www.le.ac.uk/ad/culn/membership/membership.html - 11k
In common parlance, each stage within any framework of qualifications, be it school, vocational or higher education, is referred to as a 'level'. ...
www.qaa.ac.uk/academicinfrastructure/FHEQ/EWNI/default.asp - 47k




Selected response from:

suezen
Local time: 12:32
Grading comment
It was difficult to grade this one, because all answers were, in their own way, helpful. But Suezen has certainly gone into it much deeper, and has provided many useful references. Thanks to all.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +1Technical CollegeAlain Pommet
3 +1Further Education College/University/Vocational Education Institution but no one-size fits all
suezen
3see explanation below
nordiste


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Technical College


Explanation:
Roughly equivalent to a College of Further Education. BTS is a vocational qualification 2 years after the 'bac' (at 17/18 + or -). Tricky to translate exactly as you can often do these courses in 'lycée professionnel' from 15 years old as well as post-secondary schools.
You've still got the problem of 'IUT' to translate - these are institutes belonging to higher education -offering vocational and technical diplomas;




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2007-09-19 08:16:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

What I meant is that the 'lycée professionel' has students as young as 15 years old in the school.

Alain Pommet
Local time: 12:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 39

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mohamed Mehenoun
4 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Further Education College/University/Vocational Education Institution but no one-size fits all


Explanation:
In the UK, what used to be a polytechnic, which provided vocational training is now a university. This doesn't help resolve our dilemma. The Egide site is generally deemed to be a good basis for translation but however hard you look, you'll only find Professional University Institutes in countries outside the UK. Another alternative in the UK is Postsecondary higher education institutes or vocational training institions.
Note that in France the IUT and BTS used to be a 2-year course but all the schools are now looking to integrate a 3rd year to make it a 3-year course in order to meet the requirements of the Bologna Agreement. Here are some links which you may find helpful
Atlantis is based on the development of a multilateral consortium of postsecondary higher education educational or vocational training institutions or ...
http://ec.europa.eu/education/programmes/eu-usa/index_en.htm...
The French system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_France
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:-wTEuTDfnE0J:www.egide....
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:mXTD5At-WUMJ:www.patrim...
Grenoble IUT1 offers three-year university degree courses in engineering technology with the first phase leading to the DUT (Diplôme Universitaire de Technologie) at the end of four semesters of intensive study. Successful applicants for the second phase, study for a further 9 months for the Licence Professionnelle, focused on more professional aspects of the overall training.
NEW ! International degrees at the Grenoble IUT opening in September 2007.
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:ZymDUcIonTMJ:www-iut.uj...
http://209.85.129.104/search?
For the UK system
q=cache:S5kF2kLhYkYJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_education+UK+university+institute+technology+vocational+education&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytechnic#United_Kingdom
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:Vk1ARaEhnqsJ:en.wikiped...
West Thames College is a successful medium-sized college of further and higher education based in Hounslow. We specialise in professional and specialist vocational training providing students with the skills, practical experience, opportunities and support to help them succeed. Our highly practical qualifications are taught in state of the art facilities by lecturers that are industry professionals with up to date knowledge and skills and access to great contacts. For further information visit www.west-thames.ac.uk.
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:GDw_TPgl0NEJ:www.westlo...
General vocational further education college located in South West ... We deliver high quality undergraduate, postgraduate and professional education and ...
www.le.ac.uk/ad/culn/membership/membership.html - 11k
In common parlance, each stage within any framework of qualifications, be it school, vocational or higher education, is referred to as a 'level'. ...
www.qaa.ac.uk/academicinfrastructure/FHEQ/EWNI/default.asp - 47k






suezen
Local time: 12:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 234
Grading comment
It was difficult to grade this one, because all answers were, in their own way, helpful. But Suezen has certainly gone into it much deeper, and has provided many useful references. Thanks to all.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  katsy: agree with all that. Hi Suezen!
22 hrs
  -> hi Katsy :-) Thanks, wondered if maybe I was rambling a bit!!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
see explanation below


Explanation:
After the "baccalauréat " (A levels) :

Ecole de commerce = bac + 5 years , in a very competitive environment.
You start working as a business executive or junior manager

Ecole professionnelle = Bac + 2 - more technical and pratical.
You start working as an employee/clerk/assistant/technician.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2007-09-19 08:08:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ecole de commerce = business school

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-09-19 10:13:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ecole professionnelle does not refer to a specific school or college, it's more a generic term as in "enseignement professionnel" vs "enseignement classique"

nordiste
France
Local time: 12:32
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
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