5ème de collège française - the equivalent of the 2nd year of lower secondary school (Junior High (US)) in France ( translation glossary) Belgian education system,Education / Pedagogy,

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	5ème de collège française
English translation:	the equivalent of the 2nd year of lower secondary school (Junior High (US)) in France
Entered by:	Victoria Burns

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2:16pm May 19, 2008

French to English translations [PRO]
Education / Pedagogy / Belgian education system

French term or phrase: 1ère secondaire .... 5ème de collège française

The following sentence is from a document on the Belgian education system.

"L'enseignement secondaire (Sekundarschulwesen, secundair onderwijs) est, à l'instar de l'enseignement primaire, compris dans la période de scolarité obligatoire et s'adresse aux adolescents de 12 à 18 ans. Il se caractérise par une diversification plus précoce qu'en France (**à partir de la 1ère secondaire correspondant à la 5ème de collège française**)."

I'm very interested to see how others would convey the last part of the sentence (in brackets) in English.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Many TIA

Vicky

Victoria Burns

KudoZ activity
Questions: 228 (11 open)
Answers: 379

United Kingdom

starting in the 1st year of secondary school, the equivalent of (...) (see below)

Explanation:
"starting in the 1st year of Secondary School, the equivalent of the 2nd year ("la 5e") of Junior High ("collège") in France"

Belgium: primary - 6 years; secondary - 6 years.
France: primary - 5 years; collège/lycée 4 + 3 years

I borrowed the translation of "collège" (i.e. "Junior High") fron Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Belgium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_France

Selected response from:

Christian Robitaille
Canada

Note from asker to answerer

Yes! This is what I wanted - something that didn't mentino 5/5th anywhere, since as we all know, 5eme is nothing to do with 5th year in secondary education. Thanks to all who contributed!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

second yer of secondary school or junior high school called 5th grade in France

Anne Farina

4 +1

starting in the 1st year of secondary school, the equivalent of (...) (see below)

Christian Robitaille

Not for points: Info

sueaberwoman

3 +1

1st form of secondary school ...the 5th form of a French college

B D Finch

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

1st form of secondary school ...the 5th form of a French college

Explanation:
The 1st form of a Belgian secondary school corresponds to the 5th form of a French college.

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-05-19 15:28:53 GMT)
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Sorry, I meant "is equivalent to".

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-05-19 15:49:23 GMT)
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The source text is telling how the Belgian system relates to the French one. How it relates to the UK system (which is not, as far as I am aware, a unified national system) would be a different report/study, rather than a translation problem.

B D Finch
France
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 20

Notes to answerer

Asker: My problem with this sentence arises from the fact that the French 'collège' does not correspond to the English 'college'. Similarly, '5eme' would be something like the UK year 8, which would not be 5th form. Or am I reading this incorrectly?

Asker: I totally agree, but that wouldn't change the fact that what I would have written in English would not correspond to what is meant by the French, if you see what I mean.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Irene McClure: I agree - 1st Year in Belgian secondary school is the same as 5ème in French collège. For info, the Belgian and Scottish systems look similar with kids starting 1st Year of Secondary aged around 12. Cant fit link but see wiki under 'belgian educn'.

39 mins

neutral

writeaway: am not so sure that the 1ere secondaire means all three years. at least it didn't when my son was in school 3 years ago. as you say, you have to know/understand the different systems. it's not just a question of 'translating'.

1 hr

neutral

sueaberwoman: What age are fifth-form pupils exactly??? I've come across lower and upper fifth form, so doubt this is the right equivalent.

2 hrs

neutral

katsy: sorry but for me 'fifth form' is specifically British (year 11, 15-16 year olds) and , in this translation, would be very misleading to a British English-speaker ...

3 hrs

4 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

starting in the 1st year of secondary school, the equivalent of (...) (see below)

Explanation:
"starting in the 1st year of Secondary School, the equivalent of the 2nd year ("la 5e") of Junior High ("collège") in France"

Belgium: primary - 6 years; secondary - 6 years.
France: primary - 5 years; collège/lycée 4 + 3 years

I borrowed the translation of "collège" (i.e. "Junior High") fron Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Belgium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_France

Christian Robitaille
Canada
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 4

Note from asker to answerer

Yes! This is what I wanted - something that didn't mentino 5/5th anywhere, since as we all know, 5eme is nothing to do with 5th year in secondary education. Thanks to all who contributed!

1 day3 hrs confidence:

second yer of secondary school or junior high school called 5th grade in France

Explanation:
Or th in the States.

Anne Farina
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 12

1 day6 hrs confidence:

Not for points: Info

Explanation:
FYI,
French pupils start primary school at 6. They do 5 years of Primary School (CP,
CE1&2, CM1&2), then go on to Secondary School, which lasts 7
years and is divided into two parts, Collège and Lycée.

A Fr pupil attends Collège from Sixième to Troisième (the years are counted
down); then Lycée for Seconde, Première with the final
year called Terminale ,when the Baccalauréat is taken.

So Cinquième is their 7th year of formal education. (I
haven't got the hang of British Forms yet, so equivalent?)

Links for Wikipedia article on Belgian Education :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_school
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Belgium#Secondary_...

I have now done my homework:

Belgian Primary School starts at age six and lasts 6 years, (France= 5 years), so the Belgian kids at 13 are in the 1st year of Secondary School ( called Première Secondaire) whereas the French kids are already in their second year (called Cinquième).
A link to a Wikipedia chart comparing the French and Belgian systems of education
(among others):
http://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Aide:Niveaux

sueaberwoman
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English,

French
PRO pts in category: 28

Voters for reclassification as PRO / non-PRO

Non-PRO (1): writeaway

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French: 1ère secondaire .... 5ème de collège française

English translation: the equivalent of the 2nd year of lower secondary school (Junior High (US)) in France