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French to English translations [PRO] Tech/Engineering - Electronics / Elect Eng / Contactless technology for transport
French term or phrase:alimenter
I have just finished my first draft - translation of an article all about 'contactless technology' - or 'smart cards', for use in many fields, including transport, identity, payment for other services etc. There are just a few points on which I would like some expert help, however. Here is one:
Le lecteur et la carte son munis shcun d'une antenne qui permet d'alimenter la carte, passive au repos, par couplage magnetique (c'est le meme principe qu'un transformateur), puis d'echanger des information par transmission radio a la frequence de 13.56 kHz.
Assuming that I have grasped the concept correctly, and that the meaning of 'alimenter' in the paragraph above is something along the lines of 'enter' (in terms of 'feed in'), my current translation may be ok:
Both the card reader and the card are equipped with an antenna which allows the card details to be entered, passively, by magnetic coupling...etc.
I felt the need to add 'details' as the card clearly does not have to be physically 'entered' anywhere, simply presented within range.
Explanation: No, here it actually means 'provide a source of power to' --- a clever idea, the card has no battery, nor even contacts through which power can pass, but is powered by e-m induction.
I first suggested this idea 40 years ago, never dreamt it would one day actually be used!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2006-06-15 11:35:48 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
No, no, it is exactly that --- your context is quite clear on the point!
«...d'une antenne qui permet d'alimenter la carte, passive au repos, par couplage magnetique (c'est le meme principe qu'un transformateur),... »
You see, the card is passive (i.e. no power of its own), but does require power to operate --- it's a smart card (= with a chip), and not just a wholly passive 'magnetic stripe' card.
So the transmitter has a coil that couples power to a coil in the card --- the analagoy of the transformer, with a 'primary' and a 'secondary' winding, is a good one.
If you like, a minuscule amount of power is being 'transmitted' to the card by radio waves...
Please trust me on this one, electronics is my specialist field, and I am familiar with this technology.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-15 12:55:20 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Yes, FtoE, though do note that the expression 'passive au repos' qualifies 'carte' --- it means that under quiescent conditions, the card is unpowered, and not quite as you've rendered it --- it's not strictly true to say that the powering is 'passive', in fact, it is the very act of involving power that makes it 'active'
The whole point with these 'smart' cards is that they need (a tiny amount of) power to work; normally, they get this through the gold contacts, which is why this contact-less system is so revolutionary.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-15 12:58:17 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
CMJ, you don't seem to be following, when you say "why would the card be powered?"? ALL smart cards have to be powered, what's clever here is the no-contact way of doing it.
This is quite different from the inductive coupling used for other types of card, for thing like identification purposes, which are not in themsevles smart card, and which is what you are describing.
This is a different system, the clever bit being to use inductive coupling for BOTH data AND power transmission.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-15 13:00:21 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Also note: although they quite correctly say "radio" transmission, 13.56 kHz is obviously an exceedingly LOW radio frequency --- it falls within the audio band, in fact! Which is why I prefer to describe it as inductive coupling, which agrees nicely with their transformer analogy.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-15 13:05:09 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
"The card-reader and card each have an antenna, allowing the card (passive in its quiescent state) to be powered by magnetic coupling (the same principle as a transformer), and then for data to be exchanged by radio transmission at a frequency of 13.56 kHz. For N***** cards, which are of the C****** family, the exchange time is very short, i.e. roughly 150 milliseconds to transmit the data necessary for mutual recognition of the card and the validator securing the transaction, then for the ticket to be checked and the validation recorded."
After much discussion and further research, I have to give this one to Dusty. There is sufficient evidence...once you know where to look (thanks David)...on the Internet to back up the use of 'power' - although 'energize' was a good alternative (thanks mediamatrix). The cards can indeed be 'recharged' (as per CMJ) in terms of information or fare credits, but not in terms of power. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
....up a bit of a storm with this one, I felt it only fair to provide some further context, which has come to light since. I am now on the 2nd translation in this series, and have found a small paragraph explaining the technology, which kinda clinches it:
`La puce gere la securite de l'ecriture des donnees. Elle est alimentee par une antenne de radio-communication courte portee (5 - 10 cm) qui lui fournit a la fois son energie de fonctionnement et les messages informatiques.
Actually, I agree, 'energized' might be a good alternative. Anyway, I hope this settles it once and for all, and I would like to wish all my very helpful colleagues, in particular those here present, a happy future in this high-technology world full of translation!
The card-reader and the card are each equipped with an antenna, making it possible for the card to be powered, passively, by magnetic coupling (the same principle as a transformer), and then for data to be exchanged by radio transmission at a frequency of 13.56 kHz. For N***** cards, which are of the C****** family, the exchange time is very short, that is, roughly 150 milliseconds to transmit the data necessary for mutual recognition of the card and the validator securing the transaction, then for the ticket to be checked and the validation recorded.
...well, of course, being an egalitarian, as I am, I really don't mind who is right or wrong...but of course I don't want my translation to be wrong. To answer your latest question...this of course is a highly technical matter...and one that I can't claim to fully understand, myself - way too sophisticated for me...but I must say that the website David provided give a pretty good explanation of how this works... have a look at it if you haven't already...and, as I said before, your answer was what I originally thought was right...but then you do have the disadvantage of not having the whole text, it is true.... and the text is long, and in hard copy - which makes it difficult to reproduce large amounts of it...anyway, thank you very much for your input, and please don't wriggle too much more over this one!
well, as a paid-up still wriggling worm, I still don't see it. I don't have the whole text. But why would the card be powered? Maybe a neat idea but does it exist? Not if we're talking Navigo and the like
...I seem to have opened the proverbial can of worms here, somewhat...unintentionally. I can see where CMJ is coming from, and I have to say that were it not for talk of antennae, I would have been inclined to think this was right, that it was just about 'recharging' or 're-crediting' the card. The mention of radio frequencies and transmission is also a bit of a clue here...and the website David provided gives a very good illustration of exactly what is happening here...also, I have to say that 'rechargement' is referred to elsewhere in this article, whenever they are talking about 're-crediting' the cards for travel (mostly) etc...so I have to say that I am with Dusty and David on this one...
sorry but this is not attack - I was an interpreter in WG on this- the antenna serve to transmit the information to reload the card so it can go on being used - I think you are barking up the wrong tree but can't prove it - FRUSTRATION
but that is the point - resupply with credit - I must apologise for getting fractious but I have lived in France so long and all these techniques have emerged in that time that I sometimes have doubts over the English word
Um...Dusty...I appear to have got my wires (although strictly speaking there are none, of course) crossed on this one... but I am afraid I still don't understand exactly what it means. Provide a 'source of power to' in what sense, do you mean? Looking at this again, I perhaps should have supplied further context, because I think it may be a question, here, of the card details being 'entered' (i.e. its data being read by the super-duper device)... because further down from the text I supplied earlier, it says:
....la duree d'echange est tres courte, soit environ 150 millisecondes pour transmettre les donnees necessaires a la reconnaissance mutuelle de la carte et du valideur qui securise la transaction, puis au controle du titre et a l'ecriture de la validation'.... so I think it must be a question of 'alimenter' meaning something along the lines of what I originally suggested, no?
I must admit that my first reaction was that it meant 'recharge', as suggested by CMJ, in the sense of 'resupply with credit'... but I think it must be looking at things from the other side...the card-holder is actually 'spending' on the card (by travelling) and not 'recharging/recrediting' it. But your answer (for which many thanks!)...has confused me somewhat! Help!
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
3 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
supply
Explanation: power supply
isabellev50 Local time: 09:45 Works in field Native speaker of: English
17 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): -1
recharge
Explanation: I think this is the term or am I mixing my languages?
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2006-06-15 11:52:51 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
TONY this is not personal nor attack - just MY field also and I can see what is going on but seem not to be able to make my ppint - aargghhh
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2006-06-15 11:55:05 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I should add for the asker that I work in transport and Ihere we are talking about contactless cards. What has power got to do with contactless cards? You recharge them, yes, but power them - what for? we are talking about cards that let you get into the metro or on buses etc. Power? I can't see it.
In the end, I would adivse you to ask the client to explain the principle - that way at least you'll know who is on the right track
xxxCMJ_Trans Local time: 09:45 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 30
Explanation: No, here it actually means 'provide a source of power to' --- a clever idea, the card has no battery, nor even contacts through which power can pass, but is powered by e-m induction.
I first suggested this idea 40 years ago, never dreamt it would one day actually be used!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2006-06-15 11:35:48 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
No, no, it is exactly that --- your context is quite clear on the point!
«...d'une antenne qui permet d'alimenter la carte, passive au repos, par couplage magnetique (c'est le meme principe qu'un transformateur),... »
You see, the card is passive (i.e. no power of its own), but does require power to operate --- it's a smart card (= with a chip), and not just a wholly passive 'magnetic stripe' card.
So the transmitter has a coil that couples power to a coil in the card --- the analagoy of the transformer, with a 'primary' and a 'secondary' winding, is a good one.
If you like, a minuscule amount of power is being 'transmitted' to the card by radio waves...
Please trust me on this one, electronics is my specialist field, and I am familiar with this technology.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-15 12:55:20 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Yes, FtoE, though do note that the expression 'passive au repos' qualifies 'carte' --- it means that under quiescent conditions, the card is unpowered, and not quite as you've rendered it --- it's not strictly true to say that the powering is 'passive', in fact, it is the very act of involving power that makes it 'active'
The whole point with these 'smart' cards is that they need (a tiny amount of) power to work; normally, they get this through the gold contacts, which is why this contact-less system is so revolutionary.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-15 12:58:17 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
CMJ, you don't seem to be following, when you say "why would the card be powered?"? ALL smart cards have to be powered, what's clever here is the no-contact way of doing it.
This is quite different from the inductive coupling used for other types of card, for thing like identification purposes, which are not in themsevles smart card, and which is what you are describing.
This is a different system, the clever bit being to use inductive coupling for BOTH data AND power transmission.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-15 13:00:21 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Also note: although they quite correctly say "radio" transmission, 13.56 kHz is obviously an exceedingly LOW radio frequency --- it falls within the audio band, in fact! Which is why I prefer to describe it as inductive coupling, which agrees nicely with their transformer analogy.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-15 13:05:09 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
"The card-reader and card each have an antenna, allowing the card (passive in its quiescent state) to be powered by magnetic coupling (the same principle as a transformer), and then for data to be exchanged by radio transmission at a frequency of 13.56 kHz. For N***** cards, which are of the C****** family, the exchange time is very short, i.e. roughly 150 milliseconds to transmit the data necessary for mutual recognition of the card and the validator securing the transaction, then for the ticket to be checked and the validation recorded."
Just a few suggested tweaks... :-)
Tony M France Local time: 09:45 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 1427
Grading comment
After much discussion and further research, I have to give this one to Dusty. There is sufficient evidence...once you know where to look (thanks David)...on the Internet to back up the use of 'power' - although 'energize' was a good alternative (thanks mediamatrix). The cards can indeed be 'recharged' (as per CMJ) in terms of information or fare credits, but not in terms of power.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +2
