This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2012-03-17 06:54:07 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
French to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Finance (general)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 10 hrs (2012-03-13 18:39:14 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Do not equate liquidation judiciaire with 'compulsory liquidation'.
"La demande d'ouverture d'une liquidation judiciaire peut être initiée par :
une demande du débiteur lui-même au plus tard dans les 45 jours qui suivent la cessation des paiements lorsqu'aucune procédure de conciliation n'a été engagée dans ce délai ; une assignation du débiteur par un ou plusieurs de ses créanciers ; une saisie d'office du tribunal ; une saisie du tribunal sur requête du ministère public." (http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/contents/procedure...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 12 hrs (2012-03-13 19:44:20 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Feel free to say "judicial liquidation" if you wish. The translators of the English version of the Code de Commerce posted on Légifrance (one of the better Code translations there, IMO) do so 12 times. They also use the term "court-ordered" 17 times, many in connection with liquidation. And they also describe the proceeding as one of "liquidation subject to judicial supervision" (one time).
Supervision is really what it's about. The court appoints a supervisory judge and an administrator to *do* the liquidation. "Court-ordered" simply means the court orders the proceeding to be held. The creditors can request it, but so can the debtor.
"Liquidation" and "winding-up" are both used loosely for the whole process of ending a company's existence, but lawyers make a useful distinction between dissolution, winding-up, and liquidation -- three phases that occur in that order when a company goes out of existence voluntarily.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 23 hrs (2012-03-14 06:47:01 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I said at the outset that I was offering a generic *cross-jurisdictional* term. To the two answerers plumping for “compulsory liquidation” as understood in the UK and *some* of its former colonies, I concede that liquidation judiciaire in France is very similar. A “compulsory” liquidation in the UK can be, and not infrequently is, initiated voluntarily – in the ordinary sense of that word – by the debtor, i.e., not against the debtor’s will, just as LJ can be in France, whereas a “voluntary” liquidation is understood not to involve the court at all. In effect, the plain-language meanings of these adjectives are replaced by the consideration of whether the court’s powers of compulsion are invoked in a legal proceeding to effect the liquidation (“compulsory”) or are not (“voluntary”). Got that?
I believe “court-supervised liquidation” will be understood, and cannot be misunderstood, anywhere in the Anglosphere. I cannot say the same about “compulsory liquidation”, especially in jurisdictions which have “court-supervised voluntary liquidation” (as well as the involuntary kind) or where the relevant parallels go by names such as “Chapter 7” or “Chapter 13” and where “voluntary/involuntary” and “compulsory” are *highly* likely to be understood to refer to the will of the debtor as opposed to the involvement of a court. Why risk such confusion when the French term is so plain and simple? Liquidation means liquidation, and judiciaire means that a court is involved. In a supervisory role!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 23 hrs (2012-03-14 07:39:40 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
FWIW, the Dalloz-Harrap's Law Dictionary gives "official receivership" for 'liquidation judiciaire' and "compulsory liquidation" for 'liquidation forcée'.
Thanks a lot for your help.
I chose your answer because this term reflects most the meaning of "liquidation judiciaire" in France. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Descriptive translations are often excellent ideas. Translating term for term is risky as only when the procedures and implications are the same is it arguably safe.
A "liquidation judiciaire" can be initiated by a number of entities. The order to liquidate is made by the court. (Cf. RKillings post).
A couple of similarities which make for a number of sources where the terms are translated as pretty much equivalent. There are correlations on a number of points but they are arguably not identical. A descriptive solution is often best. Depends on context, target etc.
It is not wholly accurate to say that France does not have a dual system.
Simply put, the distinction is made on the basis of the type of debt. Professional debts are dealt with under rules and regulations which apply whether there is a corporate structure, a sole trader etc. Personal debts arising out of consumer credit problems, losing one's job etc are dealt with under the rules and regulations relating to what is described as "surendettement".
That the asker was considering "winding-up" suggests that her case involves a personne morale. It is worth pointing out, though, that liquidation judiciaire can also apply to a personne physique with a trade or business. A standalone translation of the term needs to cover both cases. France does not have a dual bankruptcy/insolvency system as *some* other countries do.
Your point is of course a valid one. As we all know, context is call, for understanding the source and for conveying that sense taking the final reader into account. "Compulsory liquidation" is valid for England and Wales.
If a wider or other target reader is intended, then a more general term may be advisable.
I used to work in the Legal, Ethics and Discipline Department of an accountancy statutory professional body in Lincoln's Inn. On the floor above us, was the (then) Insolvency Practionner's Association. Many of the members of the statutory body were qualified liquidators. At any one time I would have around 20-30 files on the portfolio regarding liquidations. I spent lots of time checking out the history of claims made out against some liquidator members. I became familiar with the mechanisms of liquidation. A number of things have changed since then, thank goodness! This implication os this term has not.
Subsequently, in private practice, the firm where I was a civil litigation assistant was working on an important case where some individual had left the UK to settle in France where some behaviour best defined as unscrupulous to say the least, was repeated on both sides of the Channel. I spent a fair bit of time on the telephone and in correpondence with French counterparts. I am confident that "compulsory liquidation" is a more than satisfactory rendering of "liquidation judiciaire". There!
See the note I've added to my answer. There is a good case for resisting a "well-established legal expression" -- well-established *in a particular jurisdiction* -- if there is a high likelihood of misunderstanding in *other* jurisdictions AND there is a more universal term without that disadvantage.
I don't understand the resistance to using well-established legal expressions that express the same concepts?
This from UK's Companies House http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/infoAndGuide/faq/liquidatio... "Q. What is the difference between a voluntary and a compulsory liquidation? A. A voluntary liquidation, which can be either a members' voluntary liquidation or a creditors' voluntary liquidation, is brought about by resolution of the company and is conducted by a qualified practitioner. A compulsory liquidation is brought about by an order of the court and can be conducted by the Official Receiver or a qualified practitioner."
That's the exact same distinction between 'amiable' and ' judiciaire' liquidation in France.
Just as in EN: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidation "The parties who are entitled by law to petition for the compulsory liquidation of a company vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but generally, a petition may be lodged with the court for the compulsory liquidation of a company by: 1. the company itself"
Yes, but there is no such thing as a "judicial liquidation", which in that particular case reads as if it meant "judicious". One of the classic uses of the term "judicial" in English law relates to the doctrine of "judicial review" which I have seen translated in French as meaning review of a case by a judge. The first sentence of the term as described on Wikipedia is not bad. It in fact describes judges' power to review and potentially render invalid legislative and executive doings.
As for Webster's, yes, "judicial" can be used to describe a judicial system, judicial branch, judicial courts, judicial decision-making" and so on.
When describing a decision made by a court, a court ruling, the judge's ruling and so on, "judicial" is not used : court-ordered is used, for example.
"Judicieux" and "judicious" mean the same thing. I did not make myslef that clear in my first post - and have perhaps not much better here - but liqudiations are not described as being "judicial" when conveying the sense of a judge's ruling. It reads as if it were "judicious".
the definition of judicial according to Webster's is 1 of judges, law courts, or their functions 2 allowed, enforced, or set by order of a judge or law court 3 administering justice 4 like or befitting a judge 5 carefully considering the facts, arguments, etc., and reasoning to a decision; fair; unbiased
I am not sure what you mean by "title" of a case. In any event, more context, extract from the document, without names, dates and places, would be helpful.
Caveat : the French term "liquidation judiciaire" is a liquidation which has been ordered by the court. In England and Wales, the term "compuslory liquidation" describes a liquidation ordered by the court.
However, the two legal systems are different. Implications are different and there is a danger of using a term which appears to be suitable on the basis of one criteria, namely, that it is ordered by the court.
There is quite a strong argument for a term which is less "loaded", something long the lines of "liqudiation ordered by the court".
Whatever you decide, might I suggest that you avoid one of the suggestions in the ProZ glossary "judicial liquidation". "Judicial" in English translates back as "judicieux"!!! I trust you appreciate the difference.
A little more in the way of context would be useful, Céline. I have seen both "liquidation" and "winding up"... just as I have seen "demande de liquidation judiciaire" rendered as "application for bankruptcy".
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
13 mins confidence:
compulsory liquidation
Explanation: As suggested by R+C — and in the absence of context to confirm (or not).
Tony M France Local time: 05:51 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 244
14 mins confidence:
compulsory liquidation
Explanation: That's what I see most often.
Cyril B. France Specializes in field Native speaker of: French PRO pts in category: 19