KudoZ home » French to English » Genealogy

dictionnaire patronymique

English translation: dictionary of surnames

Advertisement

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:dictionnaire patronymique
English translation:dictionary of surnames
Entered by: Juliette Scott
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

11:56 Jul 12, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Genealogy
French term or phrase: dictionnaire patronymique
see examples in below link (scroll down a bit, they're highlighted), what do we call this in English?

http://74.125.39.104/search?q=cache:mhHGzEbrc1IJ:noms.voila....
Lori Cirefice
France
Local time: 01:41
dictionary of surnames
Explanation:
Plenty of Ghits

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2008-07-12 12:01:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or dictionary of family names (maybe better for US ??)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2008-07-12 12:03:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Surnames-Patrick-Hanks/dp/0...

Oxford publishes this one - and if Oxford call it that - I'm convinced !!
Selected response from:

Juliette Scott
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:41
Grading comment
thanks - this is what I needed
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Advertisement


Summary of answers provided
4 +9dictionary of surnames
Juliette Scott
4 +1Helen's Point (not for grading)
Christopher Crockett
3dictionary of patronyms
Helen Shiner


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +9
dictionary of surnames


Explanation:
Plenty of Ghits

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2008-07-12 12:01:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or dictionary of family names (maybe better for US ??)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2008-07-12 12:03:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Surnames-Patrick-Hanks/dp/0...

Oxford publishes this one - and if Oxford call it that - I'm convinced !!

Juliette Scott
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:41
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
thanks - this is what I needed

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Laurel Clausen: "surnames" gets more hits than "family names" - and I've seen this expression (or "surname dictionary") on US sites. :)
2 mins
  -> thanks Laurel !

agree  Tony M
3 mins
  -> Thanks Tony

agree  xxxsavaria
13 mins
  -> Thanks !

agree  Catherine CHAUVIN
43 mins
  -> thanks !

agree  myrden
1 hr
  -> thank you

agree  c_rouizi
1 hr
  -> thanks !

agree  1045
3 hrs
  -> thanks!

agree  Mohamed Mehenoun
8 hrs
  -> thank you

agree  Christopher Crockett: Yes, or, if it's a bit more "down market" than one done for Oxford, "Family Names" might be more salesworthy.
2 days18 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
dictionary of patronyms


Explanation:
If the context is Russian and some other countries where they have both surnames and patronyms: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MENNO-ROOTS/20...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days36 mins (2008-07-14 12:33:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

An example of a dictionary of patronyms with references to many more: http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/zgrammar.html

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:41
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Helen - actually, my initial research was going in the "patronym" direction but I wasn't finding much. There is no Slavic context here, it's entirely French.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Christopher Crockett: Again, basically, I agree with you; and *if* it is a question here of a *Slavic* name dictionary, your answer would be right. See my note.
1 day21 hrs
  -> To be fair there would only need to be one, but here is an example anyway: see new note to my entry./I know it is extremely unlikely, but I thought it worth mentioning anyway. I have to deal with them all the time as part of my research.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 days1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Helen's Point (not for grading)


Explanation:
As I said in my peer comment, I think that Helen makes a good point (and one which should definitely be considered, if it our text is a Slavic dictionary of patronyms).

This is espcially the case since the French "patronymique" can be somewhat ambiguous --does it mean (in English) "family name/surname" or "patronymic"?

It appears that the former is definitely the case (though how the French refer to the Russian ["true"] patronymic is, for me an open question).

It is worth noting that Helen's site

http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/zgrammar.html

lists no true "Dictionary of Patronyms," only Russian name dictionaries which, of necessity, include patronyms.

here's the Tresor de la langue francaise:

http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/affart.exe?19;s...

PATRONYMIQUE, adj.

I. Nom patronymique

A. ANTIQ. Nom dérivé de celui d'un personnage illustre, et qui sert à désigner les descendants de ce personnage. Héraclides, Séleucides sont des noms patronymiques (Ac. 1798-1935). Les noms des gentes, en Grèce aussi bien qu'à Rome, ont tous la forme qui était usitée dans les deux langues pour les noms patronymiques. Claudius signifie fils de Clausus, et Butadès fils de Butès (FUSTEL DE COUL., Cité antique, 1864, p.131).
B. P. ext., usuel. Nom de famille, notamment lorsqu'il est transmis par le père (p.oppos. au prénom). Synon. patronyme. Monsieur le président De Bonfons (il avait enfin aboli le nom patronymique de Cruchot) ne parvint à réaliser aucune de ses idées ambitieuses (BALZAC, E. Grandet, 1834, p.254). Gide évite pour ses personnages les noms patronymiques qui risquent de les planter d'emblée solidement dans un univers trop semblable à celui du lecteur, et préfère les prénoms peu usuels (SARRAUTE, Ère soupçon, 1956, p.72):

Il paraît, dans les quatre grands journaux, cette note: «C'est par une erreur qui va être rectifiée que dans le Dictionnaire des contemporains, le nom de Goncourt a été indiqué comme un pseudonyme de MM. Edmond et Jules de Goncourt, le nom patronymique de ces messieurs étant légalement Huot de Goncourt».
GONCOURT, Journal, 1858, p.562.

II. LING. Qui est relatif au patronyme. On ne saurait s'étonner de l'absence de suffixe patronymique en français, si l'on songe aux difficultés auxquelles s'est heurtée la suffixation dans notre langue, du fait de l'usure phonétique (DAUZAT Anthropon. 1949, p.53). La valeur patronymique [du suffixe -eçon, -esson] n'est établie, à ma connaissance, dans aucun texte (...); mais ce suffixe devait être signalé (...) pour écarter l'hypothèse d'un composé patronymique (DAUZAT Anthropon. 1949, p.54).
Prononc. et Orth.: []. Ac. 1762, 1798: patronimique; dep. 1835: -ny-. Étymol. et Hist.A. Subst. ca 1245 patrenomique «nom commun à tous les descendants d'une race et tiré du nom de celui qui en est le père» (HENRI D'ANDELI, Bat. des Sept arts, IV, 290 ds T.-L.). B. Adj. nom patronymique 1. fin XIVes. «id.» (ROQUES t.2, p.3240: Eacides, non d'onme. filz ou nepvou de Eacus. si conme Achilles. nom patronomique); 2. 1817 «nom de famille» (STAËL, Consid. Révol. fr., t.1, p.289). Empr. au b. lat. gramm. patronymicus, adj. également comme subst. patronymicum «nom donné d'après le nom du père», empr. au gr. «qui porte le nom du père» (de , «père» et de «nom»). Fréq. abs. littér.: 16.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 19:41
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for taking the time to provide all this useful info!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Helen Shiner: thanks for giving it more time than I have got presently.
15 mins
  -> Just a curious instance where the term is somewhat ambiguous, it seems to me. Thanks, Helen.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


Changes made by editors
Jul 17, 2008 - Changes made by Juliette Scott:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term » KOG term


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search