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Genealogy | | French term or phrase: De vair au chef ondé | De vair au chef ondé d'argent chargé d'une croix cléchee accostée de deux flocons de neige de gules
This is from a registration from the Canadian Heraldic authority, from a registration of a family crest. Not sure what it means. I know a few words, but not 100% sure. Answer in French or English please!! |
| ArtseyKudoZ activityQuestions: 7 ( 1 open) Answers: 0
| Local time: 21:11
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| Summary of reference entries provided | |  liz askew |
| Discussion entries: 0 |
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Automatic update in 00:
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3 hrs confidence:   Vair, a chief undy
Explanation:
Nothing to do with fur and my preferred knickers.
Is it a heraldic description in English you want, or a description the man in the street would understand. Since I bravely assume you have an image of the coat of arms, it can only be the former.
"Vair" refers to an alternating pattern in blue and silver ("the heraldic representation of patches of squirrel fur in an alternating pattern of blue and white", Wikipedia).
"A chief is a term used in heraldic blazon to describe a charge on a coat of arms that takes the form of a band running horizontally across the top edge of the shield." [Wikipedia]
Unde - (un'-dy) Waving or wavy. This term is applied to ordinaries or lines of division. (Also written undy; the French call it onde.)
Undy - The same as UNDE
http://historymedren.about.com/od/pimbley/a/pim_u.htm
Vert a beehive beset with a demi-orle of eleven bees volant (or), on a CHIEF UNDY ...
utpjournals.metapress.com/index/P07L18474378844N.pdf
The fourth is Pert, a CHIEF UNDY Or . The fifth is Azure, a Chief nebule Argent . ...
books.google.com/books?id=GMETAAAAYAAJ...
I don't know what the difference here is between "wavy" and "undy":
Kloosterman Coat of Arms, English heraldic jargon correct ? ... Barry WAVY of six Argent and Sable on a CHIEF UNDY Gules between two Jerusalem Crosses a ...
boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=895&p=topics.heraldry
Why not enter the "incorrect" English translation? It might look wrong to you because full of incomprehensible words but be perfectly correct heraldic English.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-11-26 22:13:54 GMT)
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OK, I see you posted the link to the description. I'm no expert on heraldry, but I'd say not only can you trust the body issuing the certificate, but the English looks genuine i.e. correct to me.
I'm still assuming you have an image of the coat of arms so don't need a description in layman's terms. If not, Google the words in your description and I'm sure you'll find examples so you can form your own mind's eye image.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-11-26 22:21:04 GMT)
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There's something I don't understand. The link you gave refers to the heraldic bearings of one Vera Roberts.
The alleged coat of arms of the Massicotte family is quite different:
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.c/qx/massicotte-coat-arms...
| xxxBourth
Local time: 04:11
Native speaker of:  English
PRO pts in category: 8
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| | Notes to answerer
Asker: Actually, that coat of arms is incorrect (I think). On that website, there are crests that are incorrect, like the Muir clan. I'm not sure if the Massicotte one is incorrect as well.
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| Reference
Reference information:
Hope the references don't bog you down!
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:KsrXlnmsuhkJ:jgrimbert....
vair = vairy
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:tthzut7zmUAJ:pagesperso...
Pour les fourrures, l’hermine fait bien entendu référence à l’animal au pelage blanc et à la queue noire. Si l’hermine est fréquente, notamment en Bretagne, Limousin et dans le Nord, en revanche la contre-hermine (couleurs inversées) est très rare. Le vair évoque selon certains, la fourrure d’un petit écureuil de Sibérie, et selon d’autres plus rares, celle de la genette. Cette panne (autre nom employé pour les fourrures) est représentée par des clochettes stylisées azur et argent "tête-bêche". En cas contraire on dit "contre-vair". De même si les couleurs sont autres que azur et argent on parle de "vairé".
Heraldique d'Abzac (guide de l'héraldique couleurs) boutique en ligne.
The furs comprised such terms as vair, vairy and ermine; and finally the pannes were representations of imitation furs (for example, “papelonny” and ...
www.heraldique-dabzac.com/htmgb/guide_couleurs.html – Cached
heraldry - heraldry, armory, blazon, herault, argent, tinctures ...
... comte d'Anjou, called Plantagenet (1113–1151), located in the cathedral of Le Mans, ... furs such as ermine and vair, the fur of the Siberian squirrel. ...
psychology.jrank.org/pages/2038/heraldry.html – Cached
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:8DB-0ZuR7HwJ:dictionary...
Vairy
Vair"y, a. [F. vair['e]. See Vair, n.] (Her.) Charged with vair; variegated with shield-shaped figures. See Vair.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-11-26 21:15:00 GMT)
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Vair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Vair (from Latin varius "variegated") is the heraldic representation of patches of squirrel fur in an alternating pattern of blue and white. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vair - Cached - Similar
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-11-26 21:16:08 GMT)
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so
Vair = representation of patches of squirrel fur
!!
how quaint
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-11-26 21:25:59 GMT)
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Yes
vair is a type of fur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldry#Helm_and_crest
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-11-26 21:28:38 GMT)
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hi
I think the "chef" bit = a chief (a broad band covering the uppermost portion of the shield)
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:xQoppM9cD3kJ:www.thurro...
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-11-26 21:49:21 GMT)
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sorry, I have shot my bolt on this one and am now moving on to a more comfortable area of answering queries - medical!
keep researching!
| liz askew
United Kingdom
Native speaker of:  English
PRO pts in category: 4
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| Note to reference poster
Asker: LOL! Squirrel fur!
Any ideas about the rest of the sentence? I'm getting a crest of my family "Massicotte" done for my parents, but need to translate the French version of this, as the English was not translated properly:
http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=508&ProjectElementID=1708
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The translation workplace 
