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envoyer dans le mur

English translation: abandon/let down/leave in the lurch

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	envoyer dans le mur
English translation:	abandon/let down/leave in the lurch
Entered by:	Isabelle O'Neill

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21:19 Jan 14, 2012

French to English translations [PRO]
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters

French term or phrase: envoyer dans le mur

Il s'agit d'un document sur l'enseignement des langues et les décisions prises par les politiques à ce sujet

Voici la phrase :

Retenons donc que le fait d'envoyer dans le mur 20% des générations d'enfants, parce qu'ils n'ont pas la langue, n'est pas considéré par la plupart des partis politiques comme une question importante

Isabelle O'Neill KudoZ activity Questions: 157 (1 open) (1 without valid answers) (18 closed without grading) Answers: 126
Local time: 12:31

abandon/let down/leave in the lurch

Explanation:
I think these suggestions match the register of the original

Selected response from:

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:31

Grading comment

Thanks
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +8

sacrifice/ditch/jettison/condemn to certain failure

polyglot45

4 +3

let them fall by the wayside

Sheila Wilson

3 +3

throw to the dogs

LauretteT

3 +1

write off

Alice Ashley

abandon/let down/leave in the lurch

AllegroTrans

allow school dropout

Virginie Schmitt

3 -1

hit a/the wall

Verginia Ophof

Discussion entries: 4

Answers

12 mins confidence:

allow school dropout

Explanation:
Another suggestion. However I am not sure if the level of speech is appropriate as "envoyer dans le mur" is rather colloquial.

or "allow children to fail school" ?

Virginie Schmitt
France
Local time: 13:31
Works in field
Native speaker of:

French

1 hr confidence:

abandon/let down/leave in the lurch

Explanation:
I think these suggestions match the register of the original

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:31
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 44

Grading comment

Thanks

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

hit a/the wall

Explanation:
suggestion

Example sentence(s):

if you hit the wall when you are trying to achieve something, you reach a situation where you cannot make any more progress

Reference: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/hit+a+wall

Verginia Ophof
Belize
Local time: 05:31
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 19

11 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +8

sacrifice/ditch/jettison/condemn to certain failure

Explanation:
something more along these lines. I agree it is not "let them" (too passive)

polyglot45
Native speaker of:

English,

French
PRO pts in category: 176

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

katsy: "sacrifice" seems a good choice to me - or even in the passive - "the fact that 20% are sacrificed"

27 mins

agree

Agnes Grand Fay: "ditch" would retain the harness of the original French

1 hr

agree

Carol Gullidge: condemn to certain failure makes most sense to me

2 hrs

agree

Nikki Scott-Despaigne: "sacrifice" is best for me here. "nvoyer dans le mur" "aller dans le mur" is a strong expression. 'sacrifice' is strong. You cannot beat about the bush on this one. You need something hard-hitting.

3 hrs

agree

Stephanie Bellumat, trad.a.: En français, on pourrait également dire "sacrifier" ou "mettre en situation d'échec", donc "sacrifice" et "condemn to certain failure" conviennent tout à fait.

3 hrs

agree

emiledgar

7 hrs

agree

B D Finch

1 day3 hrs

agree

mimi 254

2 days2 hrs

19 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

throw to the dogs

Explanation:
or something along that line, I can't remember the term used to qualify the % of inévitable human loss in a conflict... but that's the idea

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2012-01-15 10:00:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This morning I'm thinking of *expendable* which would need a bit of shuffling...
to accept that without proper use of the language, 20% of each generation of children are expendable.... something like that...

LauretteT
Local time: 13:31
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English,

French
PRO pts in category: 14

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Alistair Ian Spearing Ortiz

4 mins

-> thanks

agree

Sheila Wilson: Were you thinking of "cannon fodder"? I don't think it's quite that catastrophic. I agree with "throw to the dogs"

31 mins

-> no , just can't bring the expression to mind, thanks

neutral

AllegroTrans: I think this is too strongly put

41 mins

-> I understand but *envoyer dans le mur* would be a head on collision...

agree

Sonia Geerlings

5 hrs

-> thanks Sonia

neutral

polyglot45: never heard this expression with "dogs". "Wolves" ? Someone lets him or herself go to the dogs but that is not the same thing// still never heard this expression in English with dogs (always with wolves) - in my longgggg life

11 hrs

-> http:/idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw to the dogs Seems common to me, could be US and not British. When I answered this question the only proposal was *fizzle out* so I had to redirect, but I agree this is a little strong maybe.

neutral

Odile Raymond: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw to the dogs. Different meaning from "envoyer dans le mur". The first meaning is also too strong an expression: "To abandon someone to enemies or evil".

12 hrs

-> the first meaning is just that, thanks Odile

56 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

let them fall by the wayside

Explanation:
I've already agreed with "throw them to the dogs". This is a rather more passive alternative, which might be more appropriate as it could be said that the politicians aren't actually actively doing anything to cause these people to fail, but rather failing to provide them with the means to succeed. Anyway, it's a moot point that requires more context, and only the Asker knows which is more appropriate.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2012-01-16 17:26:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As a business EFL trainer, I often talk of English opening doors for French professionals. I think here we could say that this lack of languages "closes the door on 20% of young people"

Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 12:31
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 48

3 days1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

write off

Explanation:
Slightly colloquial.

Alice Ashley
Local time: 12:31
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English

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Changes made by editors

Jan 14 - Changes made by Stéphanie Soudais:
Language pair	English to French => French to English

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envoyer dans le mur

English translation: abandon/let down/leave in the lurch

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envoyer dans le mur

English translation: abandon/let down/leave in the lurch

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KudoZ™ translation helpThe KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

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The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.