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maisons fortes

English translation: fortified (manor) houses

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French term or phrase:	maisons fortes
English translation:	fortified (manor) houses
Entered by:	Jocelyne S

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16:41 Mar 7, 2006

[FAQ]

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History

French term or phrase: maisons fortes

Ces siècles d’histoire ont laissé des témoignages prestigieux : abbatiales, châteaux, *maisons fortes*, églises… Autant de monuments, de constructions qui représentent toutes les grandes époques et qui offrent, dans leur diversité, un fantastique voyage dans le temps.

Surely something simple like a manor, but I'm not sure...
Thanks in advance,
Jocelyne.

Jocelyne S KudoZ activity Questions: 153 (none open) Answers: 492 France
Local time: 22:32

fortified houses

Explanation:
just like fortified castles

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Note added at 12 mins (2006-03-07 16:53:26 GMT)
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or stronghouse http://www.nd.edu/~ikuijt/Ireland/Sites/mzawada/detail.htm

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Note added at 23 mins (2006-03-07 17:04:36 GMT)
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it wasn't a wild guess. I did find it in an (old) Harraps French-English dictionnary
anyway, from now on I'll know all châteaux aren't castles...

Selected response from:

marie-christine périé
France
Local time: 22:32

Grading comment

Thanks to all for your suggestions. I've decided to go with "Fortified houses" as the audience is the general public. Bourth, I liked your suggestion but fear that it might not be understood by the average reader of this tourist guidebook.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +3

fortified houses

marie-christine périé

4 +3

fortified houses

Christopher Crockett

3 +1

strongholds

Philip Taylor

bastle house ; tower house

Bourth

fortified mansions

BrigitteHilgner

Answers

3 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

fortified houses

marie-christine périé
France
Local time: 22:32
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

25 mins confidence:

fortified mansions

Explanation:
A commonly used term in English history.

BrigitteHilgner
Austria
Local time: 22:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

German

15 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

fortified houses

Explanation:
Marie-Christine has come closest to what I don't believe we have a term for in English.

Typically, "maisons fortes" were stone houses, usually in the country, which were smaller than "castles", though perhaps part of a larger complex (like an estate), capable of being defended against the kind of roving gangs of marauders who supplemented the formal armies and general chaos of the Hundred Years' War and the religious wars of the 16th century.

Fortified houses were *much* more substantial than mere farm or town houses, and could, perhaps, withstand an attack by a brigand gang, but a "castle" (at least) was needed to resist a siege by a "real" army.

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Note added at 29 mins (2006-03-07 17:10:05 GMT)
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Note to Marie-Christine:

This issue of how to translate "château" into English comes up from time to time on Kudoz and is not easy to resolve.

The problem is that the French "château" can mean, in English, either a true castle ("château forte"/"donjon", etc.) or an elaborate "mansion" or even a "palace".

It is for this reason that "the Châteaux of the Loire" is the proper way --in English-- to refer to those elaborate mansions, even though some of them may have begun life as true "castles".

Strictly speaking, the "château" of, say, Blois is really a "palace", but, because it is in a town on the Loire, we call it (in both French and English") the "Château" of Blois.

But it would be a nonsense to call, for example, Versailles or Chantilly a "castle", since a "castle" is, by definition, a fortified structure or collection of structures.

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Note added at 34 mins (2006-03-07 17:15:05 GMT)
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I really like Janet Rothero's "fortified manor houses" in her agreement with Marie-Christine.

*That* is the perfect translation, I believe.

Even though one ocassionally finds them within towns, they are most often a rural phenomenon, a response to the Tumultuous Times of the late middle ages.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 16:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 96

1 hr confidence:

bastle house ; tower house

Explanation:
It may require explanation, however, since the meaning is not as immediately obvious as with "maison forte", but it is the equivalent of what CC says he didn't believe we had a word for.

The historo-cultural difference is that while vast tracts of France have been open to varieties of warring and feuding factions, giving rise to the vast numbers of fortified towns, farms, and houses that survive today, the UK was relatively peaceful in most places, with the notable exception of the Scots marches.

I know a couple of tall, thick-walled stone houses in the Perche region just south of here that probably meet the description of "bastle house" below, and very nearly that of "tower house". I believe "tower houses" were common in Ireland as well.

Bastel House
Bastle House
Definition A fortified house of two or three storeys, the lower floor being used to house animals and the upper for domestic use

Bastle houses are found along the Anglo-Scottish border, in the areas formerly plagued by border Reivers. They are farmhouses, characterized by extremely tight measures taken against raids. Their name is said to derive from the French word "bastille."
The characteristics of the classic bastle house are extremely thick stone walls (1 meter or so), with the ground floor devoted to stable-space for the most valuable animals, and usually a stone vault between it and the first (American second) floor. The family's living quarters were on the floor above the ground, and during the times prior to the suppression of the reivers, were only reachable by a ladder which was pulled up from the inside at night. The only windows were narrow arrow slits. The roofs were usually made of stone slate to resist attempts at arson.
Bastle houses have many characteristics in common with military blockhouses, the main difference being that a bastle house was intended primarily as a family dwelling, instead of a pure fortification.
Many bastle houses survive today; their construction ensured that they would last a very long time. They may be seen on both sides of the old Anglo-Scottish Border.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastle_house

bastle house small tower house with a living room over a byre

e-plan tower house tower house with a main block and at least two wings at right angles, dating from the 16/17c

l-plan tower house distinctive scottish form of the tower house in which a wing was added at right angles to the main tower block, affording better protection by covering fire and providing more accomodation.

tower house self-contianied house with the main rooms stacked vertically, usulaly with a hall over a vaulted basement and further storeys above. Normally in a small courtyard.
http://www.phouka.com/travel/castles/castle_glossary.html

tower-house
form of small castle, common in Scotland, consisting mainly or entirely of a single tower
http://www.castlexplorer.co.uk/glossary.php#t

Tower house
A tower house is a type of building which was used during the late medieval period. These houses were built in the shape of a square tower, often over three floors. They were the houses of laird's in many areas of Scotland
http://www.benlawers.org.uk/textonly/resources/textglossary....

Bourth
Local time: 22:32
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 146

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

strongholds

Explanation:
as a possibility

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Note added at 6 mins (2006-03-07 16:47:49 GMT)
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stronghold: a defensible place; fortress (Collins)

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-03-07 18:10:18 GMT)
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No one seems to have mentioned "strong houses" as a possibility. May well not be specific enough, but if the only mention of "maisons fortes" in the text is as part of this list, which seeks simply to give an idea of the range of historical structures, a simple term like that may be more suitable.

Ferney-Voltaire, France, and La Maison Forte
(According to the earliest extant records, the 'Maison Forte' dates from at ... It was the strong house of Ferney, guarding the château and the entrance to ...
ourworld.compuserve.com/ homepages/L_P_swepston/ferney.htm

Buildings in Bellecombe Castle
The term "Maison Forte" (Strong House) is used in the Alps to qualify the manors of noblemen as, also not a true castle, it would be equipped with a tower ...
www.atelierdesdauphins.com/ english/forts/bellcomb/ebelcsbl.htm

Serveur Savoie
Originally just a standing tower, it was expanded over the centuries into a maison forte (strong house) until it finally became large enough to be called a ...
www.sav.org/e/chev.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages

Perigord - 3-10 November 2001
We also stopped at Chateau de Cluzeau, a "maison forte" or "strong house" built on a bedrock outcropping ("cluzeau") and now housing an antique shop--where ...
www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/hunter/perigord.html - 41k - Cached - Similar pages

Philip Taylor
Local time: 21:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4