Translators - Translator Resources
ProZ.com global directory of translation services
 The translation workplace

French: clerc tonsuré

English translation: tonsured cleric







KudoZ
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators... More



GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:clerc tonsuré
English translation:tonsured cleric
Entered by:Michael GREEN
Options:
- Contribute to this entry

12:56am Jan 1, 2008Login or register (free) for more options.
French to English translations [PRO]
History / Clergy
French term or phrase: clerc tonsuré
In a history journal article about seminarist and, later, doctor Armand-Jean de Mauvillain (1651-1677).

Context:

"Grand fut notre surprise en découvrant un acte notarié, daté du 5 juillet 1669, qualifiant le jeune Mauvillain '**clerc tonçuré (tonsuré)** de cestte ville de Paris y demeurant au séminaire Saint-Lazare, proche la porte Saint-Denis.'"

"Il est vrai que Armand-Jean, étant **clerc tonsuré,** pouvait bénéficier d'un canonicat, la tonsure, signe d'adoption par l'Église, étant la condition sine qua non d'attibution d'une prébende."

Does this mean he was priestly clerk? Or clerk to a priest? Or something else?

Merci!

femme
femme
United States
Clarification request(s) and response
writeaway: 9:20am Jan 1, 2008: did you check the dictionaries or www?

tonsured cleric
Explanation:
"clerc" is clerk, or cleric, not priest : though a clerk in the middle ages was probably a priest.
See quote below (window at Chartres Cathedral).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2008-01-01 09:06:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or http://donjim.blogspot.com/2004/04/whats-subdeacon.html
"the Church allows any tonsured cleric (the equivalent of a seminarian with candidacy) ..."
Selected response from:

Michael GREEN
France
Note from asker to answerer
Merci beaucoup!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +7tonsured cleric
Michael GREEN
4 -2TONSURED PRIESTetienne muylle i wallace


  


Answers

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
TONSURED PRIEST

Explanation:
In seminars, to become a priest, you first got the first diaconate, then with the second diaconate you got the tonsure. So here they mean the stage previous to be a full "official" priest, but already being able to give communion, etc

etienne muylle i wallace
Spain
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree L.J.Wessel van Leeuwen: the head gets shaved, then a "crowned" by being ordained into priesthood
1 hr

disagree Michael GREEN: See below - a "clerc" is not necessarily a priest - and usually isn't one.
5 hrs

disagree writeaway: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=16060... where does it say he was a priest?
5 hrs

disagree Christopher Crockett: Necessary distinction between a "cleric" and a "priest": All priests are clerics, but not all clerics are priests.
1 day10 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +7
tonsured cleric

Explanation:
"clerc" is clerk, or cleric, not priest : though a clerk in the middle ages was probably a priest.
See quote below (window at Chartres Cathedral).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2008-01-01 09:06:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or http://donjim.blogspot.com/2004/04/whats-subdeacon.html
"the Church allows any tonsured cleric (the equivalent of a seminarian with candidacy) ..."

Example sentence(s):
  • At left is an altar covered with a cloth- a large gold chalice stands on it. At center kneels a tonsured cleric.

    Reference: http://www.fanfiction.net/dictionary.php?word=+Cleric
    Reference: http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?vie...
Michael GREEN
France
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Note from asker to answerer
Merci beaucoup!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree BrigitteHilgner: My spontaneous idea, too. It's definitely wrong to assume that a medieval clerk was always a priest.
31 mins
  -> Thank you : and the text is 17c, when a clerk, tonsured or not, was even less likely to be a priest :)

agree Bashiqa
1 hr
  -> Thank you !

agree Rachel Fell: http://mauvillain.aliceblogs.fr/blog/_archives/2006/10/8/239...
2 hrs
  -> Thank you Rachel

agree MDI-IDM
3 hrs
  -> Thank you

agree emiledgar
8 hrs
  -> Thank you

agree Patricia Fierro, M. Sc.
9 hrs
  -> Thank you

agree Christopher Crockett: Armand-Jean held a prebend in a church (e.g., the cathedral), but he only had to have been tonsured to do this --he did not have to be a priest and may or may not have been one. Some medieval exegetes saw tonsure as typologically equal to circumcision.
1 day5 hrs
  -> Thank you. Well, put like that, I think I'd rather be tonsured ... ;)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)





Return to KudoZ list