French to English translations [PRO] History / History Book
French term or phrase:fausse tradition manuscrite
Ina book which challenges the offical historiography.
Does it mean "falsified," in the sense of being "forged," or should it just be translated as "false?"
Also, would it be better to translate "tradition manuscrite" as "handwritten tradition?"
Contexte:
"Bien qu'une **fausse tradition manuscrite** attribue la construction de l'abbaye du Saint-Denis parisien à Fulrad et à Pépin le Bref, puis son agrandissement à Charlemagne, les fouilles archéologiques faites par Sumner McKnight Crosby en 1946 n'ont pas ramené à la lumière de restes que l'on puisse attribuer avec certitude aux Carolingiens."
Explanation: Essentially the text is saying that the written history of the abbey's origin's is mistaken when compared with the archaeological evidence. (I was just there in July, and actually its origins are believed to be older, according to the exhibits; Charlemagne's enlargement is the first major one of the small, one-nave church, and then of course Abbot Suger's is the final, Gothic one we see today.)
Fausse here simply means wrong. I would simply say written, because everything was handwritten at the time those facts were noted. You could also say "recorded," for example.
Unfortunately, this is a construction that doesn't render well in English. One is more likely to say "according to written tradition, which is false/wrong/mistaken/erroneous..." although the larger sentence construction doesn't permit this easily.
Thanks. I think "false" is most appropriate since we are dealing with the suppression of historical memory, in this case. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
"Yes, I was imprecise. I meant to say that Suger's imprint is structurally the dominant one we see today."
Well, you've been there much more recently that I have, but my memory is that the building is *overwhelmingly* post-Sugerian --only the Western Massif and the *lower* choir, apse and radiating chapels are Suger's work, all the rest (nave, transepts, triforium and clerestory of the choir) being "Rayonnant" work of nearly a century later.
But, of course, most folks (us) go there precisely to see the early bits, so that's what appears "dominant" to them (us).
Proving (once again) that Reality is flexible (as if any further proof were necessary).
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Answers
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false written tradition
Explanation: Essentially the text is saying that the written history of the abbey's origin's is mistaken when compared with the archaeological evidence. (I was just there in July, and actually its origins are believed to be older, according to the exhibits; Charlemagne's enlargement is the first major one of the small, one-nave church, and then of course Abbot Suger's is the final, Gothic one we see today.)
Fausse here simply means wrong. I would simply say written, because everything was handwritten at the time those facts were noted. You could also say "recorded," for example.
Unfortunately, this is a construction that doesn't render well in English. One is more likely to say "according to written tradition, which is false/wrong/mistaken/erroneous..." although the larger sentence construction doesn't permit this easily.
claudiocambon United States Works in field Native speaker of: Italian, English PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks. I think "false" is most appropriate since we are dealing with the suppression of historical memory, in this case.
Explanation: Jim Tucker is on the right track --I'm just tinkering with the right way to say it in English.
as in:
"Although a faulty medieval tradition incorrectly attributed the construction..."
The problem is with sloppy writing (hard as it might be to believe that any French author would be sloppy or imprecise in her writing).
Though arrathoonlaa is right about what a "fausse tradition manuscrite" actually means, in this case it is clearly the traditional (medieval) *ideas* which are "fausse" --i.e., incorrect in the light of modern archeological evidence.
Yes, those ideas were (of necessity) transmitted down through the centuries via manuscripts, and those manuscripts may (or may not) have had problems with corruption/interpolations because of repeated copying; but that is clearly not the sense of the phrase within the context in which it appears.
There is more sloppiness in the phrase "construction de l'abbaye du Saint-Denis parisien" --clearly what is meant is "de l'abbaye parisien du Saint-Denis."
That's two sloppinesses in a single, short paragraph. Good luck with this text, alors.
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