English translation: it is atemporal in that it is unconcerned with
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11:27 Mar 20, 2010
French to English translations [PRO] Tech/Engineering - History
French term or phrase:dénuée d′histoire qu′elle est indifférente
Should there be a comma after "histoire"? Is something missing?
This is part of a discussion of Maxwell's energy machine and the fact that it relies upon the elasticity paradigm and the principle of conservation of energy, excluding dissipation of energy. "...; pur modèle technico-scientifique, elle est en ceci dénuée d′histoire qu′elle est indifférente au sens des processus naturels dont la cause s′enracine dans le deuxième principe de la thermodynamique."
Thanks Clanola, and for your useful comment in the Discussion section. I think perhaps it is "ahistorical", rather than "atemporal". Out on a limb (and mistaken), in failing to acknowledge contemporary knowledge about the 2nd law of TD. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
I've been reading up on Maxwell's machine this morning, since first looking at your translation question, in an attempt to better understand the French. Thanks, anyhow, for the link, which provides similar information to what I found on Wikipedia and elsewhere online. To correct my earlier statement, I should specify: 'not concerned with the meaning of the natural processes that result from the second law of thermodynamics.' Indeed, he was proven wrong.
One problem with his theoretical construct of an "energy machine" was that it ignored the dissipation of energy. It is not correct though, to say that Maxwell was not concerned with the meaning of natural processes. He was absolutely concerned with them, but he made some serious errors.
Does "dénuée d'histoire", here, mean that his energy machine would prove to be an irrelevance in the history of scientific thought? that he failed to base himself upon historical antecedents in scientific thought? ...
"Ceci explique la marginalisation de la pensée évolutive lors de la période constitutive de l′étude des structures en tant que discipline." Perhaps that helps?
I agree with Howard Cooper's ideas, in that 'histoire' has nothing to do with historical antecedents, as BD Finch states in her discussion entry. Instead, I believe that what is meant is that this machine is so theoretical in nature that it exists outside of time, outside of nature and the laws of nature. 'It is devoid of history in that it is not concerned with the meaning of natural processes....' A variation on Howard Cooper's version.
Just a shot in the dark. I wonder if "histoire" might have a totally different meaning. Perhaps "devoid of irrelevant details." Or even "concerns."
"a pure techno-scientific model, in this regard it is devoid of irrelevant concerns / details within the context of natural processes whose causes are based on the second thermodynamic principal."
As I said, just a guess that you may or may not be able to draw something from.
Yes, the 'en ceci' is referring forward to the 'qu'elle est indifférente...' So Rebecca Davis's translation is fine: 'has no history in that it is ....' However, even after reading up a little bit on Maxwell's machine, I am still too challenged by the physics of it all to understand why.
I have the same problem of comprehension as Barbara, and I'm not convinced that the 'histoire que...' hypothesis really holds water: 'has no history that it is...'? I have some qualms about that.
As regards 'histoire', I feel it possibly relates to antecedents or precedents as a technico-scientific model pure and simple.
Shame my Dad's no longer here to explain, he was very into this sort of field...
devoid of history in that ... But I wonder what sense should be given to "history": that before its invention, that since then ...? It hasn't gone into the history books? It isn't based on historical precedents? etc.
Yes...Literally, it means: has no history in this (way), that it is indifferent, etc...I would translate it as has no history in that it is.../has no history inasmuch as it is.../has no history because it is...
Explanation: I don't know enough about thermo-dynamics to fill up the back of a postage stamp, but looking at the comments by others and the general sense, this is my best guess. And no, I do not think there should be a comma.
Colin Morley France Local time: 18:09 Meets criteria Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Colin. I think this is not quite what it is about, it is not that history is irrelevant and therefore stripped away. That would seem to me to assume that the text was about an account that had been written elsewhere, whereas it is about the actual ontology of Maxwell's model.
(as such) free of historical precedent and uninfluenced by...by...
Explanation: I know the discussion section has just about nailed it but I wonder if the causal link is that strong. i.e. there should be a comma to indicate the idea of and (as often in French lists)
ormiston Local time: 18:09 Does not meet criteria Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8
Explanation: The machine exists in the realm of the purely scientific, existing outside of time; therefore it has no history.
clain Local time: 12:09 Does not meet criteria Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks Clanola, and for your useful comment in the Discussion section. I think perhaps it is "ahistorical", rather than "atemporal". Out on a limb (and mistaken), in failing to acknowledge contemporary knowledge about the 2nd law of TD.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +1
