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grimoire

English translation: grimoire

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08:46 Apr 29, 2010

French to English translations [PRO]
History / alchemy

French term or phrase: grimoire

This is a text about the history of making a liqueur, and the 'grimoire' means the book that the alchemist used, which had recipes and, I think, incantations, in it. It was a kind of book of magic spells, as I understand it.
Does anyone know the correct name for this in (UK) English. (This was an alchemist working in France).

mportal KudoZ activity Questions: 496 (5 open) (1 without valid answers) (13 closed without grading) Answers: 86
Local time: 17:10

English translation:grimoire

Explanation:
I've always seen the same word used

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Note added at 26 mins (2010-04-29 09:13:00 GMT)
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My black cat told me!

Selected response from:

Susanna Garcia
Local time: 17:10

Grading comment

Thank you, Susanna. I used this because, as it is marketing for alcohol, it should not sound like a children's story.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +6

book of spells

xxxBourth

4 +5

grimoire

Susanna Garcia

Summary of reference entries provided

Read this for explanation

Gad Kohenov

Discussion entries: 1

Answers

9 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

grimoire

Susanna Garcia
Local time: 17:10
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Thank you, Susanna. I used this because, as it is marketing for alcohol, it should not sound like a children's story.

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +6

book of spells

Explanation:
I do not know the word "grimoire" in English, and would hesitate to use it for fear that no-one would understand, unless context makes it clear. I should think if the word were used in English, we would know about it: just think of all the fairy stories we read or had read to us as children which would have given us the opportunity to be familiar with it. Even as recently as our "Disney classics" (!), I don't recall "grimoire" coming up in The Sorceror's Apprentice. It would surely have been a "book of spells". Not so in French, where every child knows what a grimoire is. Same for that US TV series with the three sisters who are witches ("Charmed", is it?): in French they consult a grimoire up in the attic, but though I haven't seen the series in English, I'd be surprised if it were anything other than a "book of spells".

On the coast west of here is a village called Pirou which has a medieval castle from which the besieged family, legend has it, took flight - quite literally - by using a grimoire to change into wild geese.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2010-04-29 11:23:12 GMT)
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Origines du château de Pirou : la légende des oies. ... Le vieillard leur expliqua alors qu'à l'aide d'un GRIMOIRE le Seigneur et toute sa maison s'étaient ...
www.chateau-pirou.org/html/legende.php

A famous legend of Normandy originates in the castle of Pirou. Besieged by the Normans, the lord of Pirou and his family transformed themselves into geese, using an old WIZARD’S BOOK, in order to escape during the assault. But a few days later, when they tried to read the REVERSE SPELL to recover their human shapes, they realized that the wizard’s book had burnt with the castle, set on fire by the Normans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Château_de_Pirou

The Legend of Pirou When the Vikings invaded Normandy they tried to storm ... He told them that with the help of a MAGIC BOOK, they'd turned themselves into ...Alas, the invaders had burned the BOOK OF MAGIC SPELLS, so they had to remain ... But to this day they return every spring in the hope of finding the SPELL BOOK. ...

books.google.com/books?isbn=1860113559...

Seems in "Charmed" it's known as "The Book of Shadows" :
The Book of Shadows, or simply "the Book, is a BOOK ON WITCHCRAFT that was created by Melinda Warren and passed from her daughter, Prudence, down the family to the Charmed Ones. This BOOK CONTAINS SPELLS, POTIONS AND INFORMATION ON THE EVIL BEINGS that their ANSESTERS have faced. They First Found out that they were witches when Phoebe finds the Book Of Shadows in their ATTICK at midnight on a full moon and reads an incantation ALLOWED. The Book of Shadows is enchanted, It can protect IT'S SELF from any evil being that dares to touch it. At the end of the third season Prue dies and another half sister Paige(Rose McGowan)comes into the show. Paige has the same mother(Penny Halliwal) as the other sisters but a white lighter as a father(SAMULE).
Each sister has a supernatural ability Paige is half white lighter which means that she can orb, Piper can FREAZE time by slowing down MOLACULES and she can also blow things up ny speeding up molacules and Phoebe can see the future and the past and levetate(fly 6 feet into the air).
[not all the spelling is like that !!!]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Shadows_(Charmed)

The ultimate guide to the hit program Charmed, this is both a BOOK OF SPELLS and a key to the mysteries of the show. The Book of Shadows celebrates the best ...
www.amazon.com › ... › Television › Guides & Reviews

Here we have "grimoire" ... but with an explanation:
Reflecting the irresistible appeal of "Charmed", one of the WB's most popular shows and designed to look like a real GRIMOIRE (A WITCH'S BOOK OF SPELLS), "The ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0609806521...

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Note added at 11 hrs (2010-04-29 20:16:33 GMT)
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And here's a reason for avoiding "grimoire" if you readership is likely to include avid TV watchers!

Simply stated, THE GRIMOIRE IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE HALLIWELL BOOK OF SHADOWS. The GRIMOIRE is a large brown book with an unknown demonic symbol of an upside down pentagram and skull on the cover. The pages of the Grimoire are said to be BLACKENED BY ITS EVIL. Much like the Book of Shadows, the Grimoire possesses the power to protect itself from its enemies or anything Good. This EVIL BOOK OF SHADOWS used by the current leader of the Underworld. Whenever a new Source is chosen, a coronation is held to declare the new power and its spells and incantations are written in Latin. It makes only a few appearances and is later orbed under a mountain of rock in the West Andes by Leo.
In the episode "Bride and Gloom" The Charmed Ones' Book of Shadows began to CHANGE ITSELF INTO A GRIMOIRE once the girls turned to evil, even transferring once good spells into new dark spells.
Much like the Halliwell Book of Shadows, the Source's Grimoire is not the only one of its kind, just the greatest and thus the one which is always directly referenced as the book.
http://charmed.wikia.com/wiki/Grimoire

In the TV series Charmed the “GRIMOIRE” was the name given to “The BOOK OF ALL EVIL”, as an opposite to the Charmed Ones' “Book of Shadows”. ...
www.faust.com/index.php/legend/grimoire/

The Book of Shadows also has an EVIL COUNTERPART KNOWN AS THE GRIMOIRE. The Grimoire was a large brown book with the Seal of ...
en.allexperts.com › Encyclopedia

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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-04-29 22:13:02 GMT)
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More thoughts (and ramblings):

The term "GRIMOIRE" COMMONLY SERVES AS AN ALTERNATIVE NAME FOR A SPELL-BOOK OR TOME OF MAGICAL KNOWLEDGE in such genres as fantasy fiction. The most famous fictional grimoire is the Necronomicon, a creation of the author H. P. Lovecraft. It was first referenced in his story "The Hound" and subsequently made appearances in many of his stories. Other authors such as August Derleth and Clark Ashton Smith have also cited it in their works with Lovecraft's approval. Many readers and others have believed it to be a real work, with booksellers and librarians receiving many requests for the fictional tome. Pranksters have even listed it in rare book catalogues, including one who surreptitiously slipped an entry into the Yale University Library card catalogue.[51]
Michael Crichton also included it in the bibliography of his 1976 novel Eaters of the Dead (which professes to be a translation of the mediaeval travel narrative of Ibn Fadlan). Several authors have also published books titled Necronomicon, though none have been endorsed by Lovecraft himself.
IN THE WB SERIES, CHARMED, THE GRIMOIRE REFERS TO THE EVIL SPELL BOOK used by demons, warlocks, etc. as opposed to the Book of Shadows, which is used by good witches.
Grimoires are a common item in video games or fantasy role-playing games with a magical element.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimoire
[A good background read]

The GRAND GRIMOIRE IS A BLACK MAGIC GRIMOIRE that claims to date to 1522. It is possibly written some point after the 18th century but also possibly it ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Grimoire

Possibly "book of shadows" too, which is a term in its own right, not just the name of the (good) grimoire in Charmed.

The BOOK OF SHADOWS IS THE NAME USED FOR A BOOK THAT CONTAINS MAGICAL AND RELIGIOUS TEXTS in the religion of Wicca and certain other neopagan witchcraft traditions. Typically, a Book of Shadows contains the core rituals, magical practices, ethics and philosophy of Wicca within it, and more often a list of the witch's personal spells.
In British Traditional Wicca, which largely revolves around the structure of the coven, the book is traditionally copied by hand from that of one's initiating High Priestess or Priest, who copied theirs in turn from their initiator. In Eclectic Wiccan terminology, however, a Book of Shadows is a personal journal, though often serves in a similar capacity to that of traditionalists.
Within traditional lineaged forms of Wicca there are a number of versions of the Book of Shadows, their contents varying to a greater or lesser degree from the early versions belonging to Gerald Gardner, who first popularised Wicca. While Gardner seems to have originally treated the book as a personal journal, it has come to be considered a religious text in most traditions.
[ ... ]
The television fantasy series Charmed features a fictional BOOK OF SHADOWS which contains spells and arcane law, and has a supernatural ability to defend itself from harm. In the 1996 film The Craft, which some critics saw as a major influence on the series Charmed,[14][15] the Book of Shadows was referred to as an object in which a witch keeps her "power thoughts".
The 2000 sequel to The Blair Witch Project was titled Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2, despite there being no mention of a Book of Shadows during the film, the title was seen as an attempt to capitalise on the Charmed series' established market
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Shadows

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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-04-29 22:16:10 GMT)
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Mind you, in this day and age people might mistake "book of spells" for a guide to orthography/Rechtschreibung.

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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-04-29 22:18:37 GMT)
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Does Bill Gates do magic/satanism? Has Microsoft produced a GrimoireChecker? (the word grimoire is thought to derive from grammaire, incidentally).

xxxBourth
Local time: 18:10
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 154

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks very much, Bourth - I now know what a 'grimoire' is (which, I agree, most English people don't). However, firstly, alchmists were always persecuted by the church: they may then have decided - or some of them - to side with the devil etc, but alchemy itself, as far as I know, was involved with transmutations, not (specifically, in any case) with demons. Secondly, as this is a marketing text for alcohol, I don't think it should sound like a children's story. I originally had 'book of magic', but decided that sounded like Harry Potter. If it sounds obscure, that adds to the mystery, and as it's a title, it needs to be short (so it's difficult to include the explanation in brackets). Lastly, the most important thing, here, is the recipes, not the spells as such, so if you call it a book of spells it might not be clear that it has recipes in it. Thanks again for your help, in any case.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

Wordeffect: Some of us clearly have heard of it, but then we probably spend more time in the dark forests of the translating world. This is in no way a "disagree! =) Funny - 'cos it's in my SOED (2vol), but I like Christopher's suggestion.

1 hr

-> T'ain't in either my SOED or my little Webster's, if that's any indication of currency./Mine's a 2vol SOED too, but no entry.

agree

Christopher Crockett: I haven't seen it either, but the OED has: "A magician's manual for invoking demons, etc." Use them both, "...grimoire (a book of spells)..."

2 hrs

-> An option.

agree

Travelin Ann: FYI - in the US version of "Charmed" it is the "Book of Shadows."

5 hrs

-> I got there eventually!

agree

emiledgar: Agree, grimoire may exist in English but most people don't know what it means.

5 hrs

agree

Rachel Fell: book of spells or book of magic - it's in my Chamber's "a magician's book for calling up spirits [Fr. cf. gramary.]"

11 hrs

-> "Gramary", that's new to me. A gramercy to you!

agree

ACOZ

17 hrs

agree

Lorna Coing: I think this is a good example of a word existing in English which isn't really used much. Had a similar issue myself with the word 'lycanthrope' in proof-reading somembody else's translation: found it exists in English, but 'werewolf' was so much better!

23 hrs

Reference comments

1 hr peer agreement (net): +1

Reference: Read this for explanation

Reference information:
Grimoire
A grimoire (IPA ) is a textbook of magic. Books of this genre, typically giving instructions for invoking angels or demons, performing divination and gaining magical powers, have circulated throughout Europe since the Middle Ages.
Magicians were frequently prosecuted by the Christian church, so their journals were kept hidden to prevent them from being burned.[1] Such books contain astrological correspondences, lists of angels and demons, directions on casting charms and spells, on mixing medicines, summoning unearthly entities, and making talismans. "Magical" books in almost any context, especially books of magical spells, are also called grimoires.

See more at Wikipedia.org

Gad Kohenov
Israel
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

French,

Hebrew
PRO pts in category: 2

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