châtellenie/châtellerie - domain of a castellan or castellan domain ( translation glossary) History,Art/Literary

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French term or phrase:	châtellenie/châtellerie
English translation:	domain of a castellan or castellan domain
Entered by:	Christopher Crockett

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2:14pm Jan 7, 2005

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History

French term or phrase: châtellenie/châtellerie

Au 11e siècle, Brenac est érigé en ***châtellerie*** dans le Razès

Le texte parle de châtellerie, mais je crois qu'il s'agit de châtellenie...

Tonja Willey

KudoZ activity
Questions: 187 (1 open)
Answers: 101

France

domain of a castellan or castellan domain

Explanation:
Michel is right, in that the more commonly seen French term is "châtellenie" ; though Cécile's dictionary reference suggests that "châtellerie" is also appropriate. I'm not sure what the difference (if any) between the two might be.

Either way, like Michel, I don't know of an exact English equivalent for this particular kind of "domain" --there were other sorts of "domains", so suezen's suggestion that we use that word by itself would not be precise enough (if your text requires precision, which it looks like it might).

I would suggest "Brenac was elevated to the status of a castellan domain [or: domain of a castellan]..." for "Brenac est érigé en ***châtellerie*** dans le Razès", even though i've never actually seen that phrase used in English before.

"Castellan" is, however, a perfectly good and common (in the context) English word, "Middle English _castelleyn_, from Old North French _castelain_, from Latin castellanus occupant of a castle, from castellanus of a castle, from castellum castle..." [http://m-w.com]

Typically, in the earlier periods, the castellan was the Lord of the castle (and the surrounding lands and property which supported it eonomically), holding it "in fief" from an overlord of some rank or other.

In the case of this "Brenac", it looks like it started out as a very minor place (perhaps just a "lieu fort") and then, at some point, was "elevated" to the status of a castellan['s] domain, presumably given "in fief" to a "knight" (_miles_) who was responsible for its defense and administration.

Such transformations were common during the "boom" years of the later 11th and 12th centuries.

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Note added at 50 mins (2005-01-07 15:05:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Many thanks to Cécile for the link to the on-line TLF!!

What a useful site that is!

Clearly \"chastelerie\" is the original term, though it itself \"n\'a pas été trouvé dans une entrée du TLF....châtellerie n\'a été trouvé nulle part dans le TLF....Aucun mot apparenté n\'a été trouvé.\"

http://atilf.atilf.fr

Quelle trésor !!

Selected response from:

Christopher Crockett
United States

Note from asker to answerer

Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +2

it's "châtellenie"

Michel Lévy

4 +2

not for grading

Cécile Lambert

4 +2

domain, seigniory

suezen

4 +1

domain of a castellan or castellan domain

Christopher Crockett

3 +1

Castellany or Chatellany

Jean-Luc Dumont

Answers

6 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

it's "châtellenie"

Explanation:
it's the whole land under a castel owner jurisdiction

GRAND ROBERT

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Note added at 8 mins (2005-01-07 14:23:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I haven\'t got a clue about the English word (if any)

Michel Lévy
Canada
Works in field
Native speaker of:

French

7 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

domain, seigniory

Explanation:
working from French to French first, a chatellerie is a seigneurie feodale, juridiction d'un seigneur châtelein.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2005-01-07 14:23:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

from the dictionnaire Quillet

suezen
France
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 36

13 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

not for grading

Explanation:
Dans le trésor de la langue française informatisé, on lit que le terme "chastelerie" était utilisé à la fin du XIIe s.

Voici la définition en entier :
CHÂTELLENIE, subst. fém.
DR. FÉOD. Seigneurie ou juridiction du seigneur châtelain. Droit de châtellenie; ériger une châtellenie en marquisat (Ac. 1798-1932).
P. méton. Étendue de pays, comportant château et fiefs, placée sous cette juridiction. Cette paroisse, cette terre est/était de la châtellenie d'un tel lieu (Ac. 1835-1932). Après avoir acheté notre Huchière, avec la châtellenie et la seigneurie, ils [les Babud] ont pris le nom de Saligny qui est un des villages (MORAND, Parfaite de Saligny, 1947, p. 106).
Prononc. et Orth. : []. Les finales -enie ou -énie s'écrivent avec un seul n; cf. vilenie, neurasthénie, etc. Attesté ds Ac. 1694 et 1718 s.v. Chastellenie, ds Ac. 1740-1932 sous la forme moderne. Étymol. et Hist. [XIIe s. d'apr. FEW et BL.-W.5] 1260 chatelenie « territoire sur lequel le seigneur châtelain exerce sa juridiction » (Ste Croix, A. Vienne ds GDF. Compl.). Dér. du rad. de châtelain*; suff. -ie* a supplanté l'a. fr. chastelerie fin XIIe s. (Prise Orange, éd. C. Régnier, 16) 1611, COTGR. Fréq. abs. littér. : 12.

Reference: http://atilf.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/advanced.exe?8;...

Cécile Lambert
Italy
Works in field
Native speaker of:

French

30 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

domain of a castellan or castellan domain

Explanation:
Michel is right, in that the more commonly seen French term is "châtellenie" ; though Cécile's dictionary reference suggests that "châtellerie" is also appropriate. I'm not sure what the difference (if any) between the two might be.

Either way, like Michel, I don't know of an exact English equivalent for this particular kind of "domain" --there were other sorts of "domains", so suezen's suggestion that we use that word by itself would not be precise enough (if your text requires precision, which it looks like it might).

I would suggest "Brenac was elevated to the status of a castellan domain [or: domain of a castellan]..." for "Brenac est érigé en ***châtellerie*** dans le Razès", even though i've never actually seen that phrase used in English before.

"Castellan" is, however, a perfectly good and common (in the context) English word, "Middle English _castelleyn_, from Old North French _castelain_, from Latin castellanus occupant of a castle, from castellanus of a castle, from castellum castle..." [http://m-w.com]

Typically, in the earlier periods, the castellan was the Lord of the castle (and the surrounding lands and property which supported it eonomically), holding it "in fief" from an overlord of some rank or other.

In the case of this "Brenac", it looks like it started out as a very minor place (perhaps just a "lieu fort") and then, at some point, was "elevated" to the status of a castellan['s] domain, presumably given "in fief" to a "knight" (_miles_) who was responsible for its defense and administration.

Such transformations were common during the "boom" years of the later 11th and 12th centuries.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 50 mins (2005-01-07 15:05:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Many thanks to Cécile for the link to the on-line TLF!!

What a useful site that is!

Clearly \"chastelerie\" is the original term, though it itself \"n\'a pas été trouvé dans une entrée du TLF....châtellerie n\'a été trouvé nulle part dans le TLF....Aucun mot apparenté n\'a été trouvé.\"

http://atilf.atilf.fr

Quelle trésor !!

Christopher Crockett
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 92

Note from asker to answerer

Thank you!

5 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

Castellany or Chatellany

Explanation:
Castellany: Cas"tel*la*ny (?), n.; pl. Castellanies (#). [LL. castellania.] The lordship of a castle; the extent of land and jurisdiction appertaining to a castle.

Chatellany
Chat"el*la*ny (?), n. [F. châtellenie.] Same as Castellany.

Châtellenie Territoire sous la juridiction d'un seigneur châtelain, comportant pouvoirs de commandement, ban sur l'ensemble des hommes qui habitent la châtellenie, possession d'un certain nombre de domaines, des seigneuries d'où le châtelain tire l'essentiel de ses revenus. Encycl

•
• CHATELLENIE, (Jurisprud.) signifie tout-à-la-fois la seigneurie d'un seigneur châtelain, l'étendue de sa seigneurie & de sa justice. Le terme de châtellenie vient de château ou châtelet, & de châtelain, parce que les châtelains étoient préposés à la garde des châteaux, comme les comtes à la garde des villes. Anciennement les châtellenies n'étoient que des offices, ou plutôt des commissions révocables à volonté ; les comtes commettoient sous eux des châtelains dans les bourgades les plus éloignées, pour y commander & y rendre la justice, & le ressort de ces châtelains fut appellé châtellenie. Dans la suite, les châtelains prirent en fief leur châtellenie, ou s'en attribuerent la propriété à la faveur des troubles. Il y a néanmoins encore plusieurs provinces où les châtellenies ne sont que de simples offices, comme en Auvergne, Poitou, Dauphiné. On se sert indifféremment du titre de prevôté ou de celui de châtellenie pour exprimer une seigneurie & justice qui ne releve pas directement de la couronne. Ces châtellenies n'avoient anciennement que la basse justice ; c'est pourquoi quelques coûtumes, comme Anjou, Maine, & Blois, portent que les châtelains n'ont que basse justice ; mais présentement la plûpart des châtellenies sont en possession de la haute justice, tellement que dans quelques anciens praticiens, châtellenie se prend pour toute haute-justice, même relevant directement du Roi ; & l'on voit d'anciens contrats qui commencent par ces mots, en la cour de châtellenie de Blois, de Tours, de Chartres, &c. Il y a donc deux sortes de châtellenies ; les unes royales, les autres seigneuriales.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pierre.collenot/Issards_eng/outils/e...

Châtelain (Med. Lat. castellanus, from cast churn, a castle), in France originally merely the equivalent of the English castellan, i.e. the commander of a castle.
This variation was most marked in the cities, where in the struggle for power that of the châtelain depended on the success with which he could assert himself against his feudal superior, lay or ecclesiastical, or, from the 12th century onwards, against the rising power of the communes. The châtellenie (casteliania), or jurisdiction of the châtelain, as a territorial division for certain judicial and administrative purposes, survived the disappearance of the title and office of the châtelain in France, and continued till the Revolution.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Ch%E2telain
See Achille Luchaire, Manuel des institutions françaises (Parrs, 1892); Du Cange, Glossarium, s. Castellanus.
This article incorporates text from the public domain 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica.

Jean-Luc Dumont
France
Works in field
Native speaker of:

French

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French: châtellenie/châtellerie

English translation: domain of a castellan or castellan domain