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expertise amiable et contradictoire

English translation: joint expert appraisal

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:expertise amiable et contradictoire
English translation:joint expert appraisal
Entered by: Valerie SYKES
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13:39 Feb 13, 2009
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Insurance / Contracts
French term or phrase: expertise amiable et contradictoire
Context:
"Si l’Assuré conteste les décisions de l’Assureur concernant son indemnisation, il peut demander une ***expertise amiable et contradictoire*** entre son médecin et le médecin délégué par l’Assureur, chaque partie supportant les frais de son expert ; si ces deux médecins ne peuvent parvenir à des conclusions communes, ils choisissent un médecin arbitre pour les départager."

Thanks in advance!

Dana
Dana Pottratz
France
Local time: 08:15
joint expert appraisal
Explanation:
For the reasons already cited in my previous answer, but more suitable given the context.

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Note added at 2 days20 hrs (2009-02-16 10:29:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Although the word 'amiable' is used in French, 'amicable' would simply not be used in this case in the English context. The same concept exists in English insurance law but the word 'amicable' is not used.
Selected response from:

Valerie SYKES
France
Local time: 08:15
Grading comment
This was a hairy one. There was lots of good input from everyone, but I chose your answer which seems to come the closest and sounds the best in English.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2an amicable joint adjustmentNeil Crockford
4 +1joint expert appraisalValerie SYKES
4joint expert assessment
B D Finch
4joint opinionkostan
3voluntary adversarial arbitrationrkillings
3can request a third out-of-court expert in addition to... to reach a majority vote (2 to 1)MatthewLaSon


Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
joint opinion


Explanation:
e.g.

kostan
Austria
Local time: 08:15
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
an amicable joint adjustment


Explanation:
In other words they will each appoint a medical adviser to settle the amount of indemnity between them, without going through the process of having the Court appoint an expert to assess the claim.

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Note added at 59 mins (2009-02-13 14:39:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There is no accepted term because the joint adjustment procedure is not normal in the UK insurance market.

Here the insurer usually appoints a single independent adjuster to determine such matters.

Neil Crockford
Local time: 07:15
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 282
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, but is there an accepted term for this in English? Your suggestion seems logical but gets no Google hits...


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: good, clear explanation /thanks-have this for Flemish and this has helped reassure me. Pity that the wrong answer was chosen here. Another case of horse/water.
1 day17 hrs
  -> Thanks

agree  SJLD: with your impressive profile, how can one disagree?
1 day18 hrs
  -> Thanks

agree  Rafael Wugalter: This seems like the best answer so far
2 days14 hrs

neutral  MatthewLaSon: Hello. My problem is that this is not how this would be normally expressed in English. This is not a concept that doesn't exist in Anglo-Saxon countries.
2 days14 hrs

disagree  Valerie SYKES: 'Amicable joint adjustment, appraisal ... isn't used in English. A simple 'expert amiable' would actually be an 'insurance assessor' in English. No need for a word-by-word translation http://www.assuragency.com/cgi-bin/glossaire/definition-expe...
2 days20 hrs
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
voluntary adversarial arbitration


Explanation:
Each party and his expert gets to cross-examine the other's. If they can't agree, a third party chosen by both is asked to decide. This is what arbitration is. You could qualify it as "out-of-court", but that is implied. "voluntary" is useful to add because this is not a case of mandatory arbitration.

rkillings
United States
Local time: 23:15
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 148
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
joint expert assessment


Explanation:
"expiry of the insurance period, a medical **expert assessment** shall form the ... secondly as defined in the Cohabitees’Joint Home Act (SFS 1987:232) and the .... of Kammarkollegiet, submit information and supply doctor’s certificates ..."
www.kammarkollegiet.se/forsakr/villkor/URAforsakreng.pdf

As this is a means of deciding the issue without going to court, I think "assessment" is more appropriate than "appraisal".




B D Finch
France
Local time: 08:15
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 84
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
can request a third out-of-court expert in addition to... to reach a majority vote (2 to 1)


Explanation:
Hello,

contradictoire = third party expert to decide the case (in addition to the other two expert (one medical expert for insurer and insuree)

aimable = out of court (you will see some ghits for "out-of-court expert"

This insurance case is being settled out of court.

"Une expertise contradictoire intervient lorsqu'il existe un conflit sur les conclusions de deux experts distincts (l'un mandaté par l'assurance et l'autre mandaté par l'assuré lui même). Un troisième expert est donc mandaté pour reprendre, en concertation avec les 2 premiers, les opérations d'expertise. Les décisions sont prises à la majorité des voix."

http://www.lexique-assurance.com/component/option,com_glossa...

I hope this helps.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2009-02-14 02:14:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in addition to the two different physicians already involved

You could not say "out-of-court" as it's already implied. That's up to you. But, you can say it if you want. It is said in natural English legalese.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days14 hrs (2009-02-16 04:17:20 GMT)
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can request a third party expert to settle the case in collaboration with the two other medical doctors...

MatthewLaSon
Local time: 02:15
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 124

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Rafael Wugalter: The "aspect contradictoire" is simply that the 2 experts get to duke it out. The intervention of an arbitrator only occurs if the "processus contradictoire" doesn't produce a result both sides accept. I hate the way Eur. French uses "contradictoire"!
2 days9 hrs
  -> Thanks for your, Rafael. Yes, it is confusing. I do believe, though, that I have the meaning right. Have a nice evening.
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
joint expert appraisal


Explanation:
For the reasons already cited in my previous answer, but more suitable given the context.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days20 hrs (2009-02-16 10:29:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Although the word 'amiable' is used in French, 'amicable' would simply not be used in this case in the English context. The same concept exists in English insurance law but the word 'amicable' is not used.

Valerie SYKES
France
Local time: 08:15
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
This was a hairy one. There was lots of good input from everyone, but I chose your answer which seems to come the closest and sounds the best in English.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  fourth: This seems closest. Joint. Expert. Appraisal
3 hrs

disagree  writeaway: you forgot "amiable" /but the French has it-it's a translation of the French-En equivalents make life easier but they don't always exist. you can't change on legal system into another. this is wrong.
1 day17 hrs
  -> 'Amicable joint assessment, appraisal ...' doesn't exist in English. Besides its definition in French doesn't require it in English. "Expertise amiable - un expert désigné par l'assureur évalue le montant des dommages .. i.e. an insurance assessor.

agree  MatthewLaSon: I believe that this can be said. However, it's not common. I agree that "amiable" is best left untranslated (out-of-court). You could spell it out: "may request a third party expert to settle the case in collaboration with the other experts."
3 days2 hrs
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Changes made by editors
Mar 23, 2009 - Changes made by Valerie SYKES:
Edited KOG entry<a href="/profile/75507">Dana Pottratz's</a> old entry - "expertise amiable et contradictoire " » "joint expert appraisal"


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