French: circonstance spécifiqueEnglish translation: specific instance 
KudoZ The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators ... More  |
|
| GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW) | | French term or phrase: | circonstance spécifique | | English translation: | specific instance | | Entered by: | MatthewLaSon |
| Options:
- Contribute to this entry |
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - International Org/Dev/Coop / international custom law | | French term or phrase: circonstance spécifique | "(une instance juridique) accepterait de recevoir une circonstance spécifique sur le même dossier"
"les (parties) sont de plus en plus vigilantes lors des procédures de circonstances spécifiques" etc.
I suspect this has a more precise meaning and equivalent English term than the obvious. All specialist help welcome! |
| | Clarification request(s) and responseMatthewLaSon: 9:14pm Jun 1, 2007: We have to be careful with words like "spécifique", which have exact equivalents in English. You were wise to epxress such uncertainty. I'm going to do more research to verify that we are dealing with "specific circumstance" (the most obvious answer)
Eutychus: 8:24am Jun 2, 2007: GLOSSARY RECTIFICATION - I think we're all mistaken, but Matthew wins for provoking me to search further myself. I have now discovered "specific instance" as in the following paper: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/42/11/38297552.pdf . The job in hand relates exactly to the field and procedures discussed in this paper and I am 100% certain that this is the term used by people in this field. Thanks to all who participated and apologies for having closed the question too soon and the ensuing glossary re-edits.
MatthewLaSon: 10:59pm Jun 2, 2007: Absolutely! I'm very happy you found the right translation. I, like you, knew that "circumstance" was not best (not wrong, however). Ideal translation in this context > specific instance. I think you could get away with "specific case" as well.
|
|
| | special circumstance | Explanation:
Hello,
I think "spécifique" would be best translated by "special" in English.
I hope this helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days4 hrs (2007-06-02 23:01:44 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
"Specific instance/case" would make for an ideal translation. That's what is really said in a context such as this. |
| Selected response from:
MatthewLaSon
United States
| Note from asker to answererThank you. I'm going to go with this, though I think specific circumstance would be ok too.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer |
|
9 mins confidence:   |
| peculiar circumstances
Explanation:
"Peculiar" is more adequate here, I think, because the circumstances are understood to be special, abnormal, not common, while "specific" would rather mean they are "typical, according to certain rules.
| |
12 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +5 |
| specific circumstance
Explanation:
Look at the two versions of the same judgment below: one in English, one in French, and compare paragraph 16 of the "Grounds"/"Motifs de l'Arrêt".
PS That is a very good way of finding (especially) French<>English translations of terms in international law: find a treaty or court judgment or whatever that already exists in two official versions and compare them.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2007-06-01 14:10:14 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Matthew. You are quite at liberty to make whatever decision you choose, and in particular to make wrong decisions, but for the record I would point out that you have done just that. "Special circumstances" are not the same as "specific circumstances". In any case, you were not presented with any references for "special circumstances" (we all know it is used in legal language, but there is no evidence of its being used with the specific sense of "specific circumstances" or "circonstances spécifiques"). It seems that you had already made up your mind not to use the obvious (and in fact correct) translation, and ignored the evidence and arguments.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2007-06-01 14:22:09 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, OK, I used the wrong name.... Making such a big deal of it amounts to an admission that you have no substantive argument. I am not sure whether you or Matthew should get the apology for the confusion, but as you seem in such harmonious agreement, I don't think it matters.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2007-06-01 16:52:04 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
...and of course you've checked it against the French version of the decision? No one ever denied the term "special circumstances" is used, just the absurd attempt to equate it with "circonstances spécifiques".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2007-06-01 17:07:19 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Here is the URL of the ICJ judgment: <http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/87/7026.pdf>. The passage in question is at the end of para. 176 (p. 114 for the French, 115 for the English). The French words translated as "special circumstances" are, quelle surprise ! "circonstances spéciales". Still, it would be a shame to let the facts get in the way of a good prejudice, wouldn't it?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2007-06-02 11:57:55 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Yes you are right: "specific instance" is an excellent translation...of "instance spécifique".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2007-06-02 12:38:52 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I thought you said you were doing a legal translation. The word "instance" in legal English, as in French, generally means a court or tribunal. I would call the OECD translation careless, but then it was not intended as a model for legal translation. If you want reference material for legal translation in FR<>EN and in international law particularly, there is plenty around. The various international tribunals almost invariably publish their decisions in English and French. And then there are international treaties, also almost always drafted in the same two languages.
So far, the only official judicial translation that has been the obvious, and there is no prima facie reason not to use it.
Reference: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...
Reference: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...
| | Notes to answerer
Asker: Richard. You are quite at liberty to ascribe the decision to Matthew, and in particular to attribute the decision to the wrong person, but for the record I would point out that you have done just that.
In the mean time, I will carry the can for *my* decision and thank you for your comments which are duly noted, signed *Eutychus* :)
Asker: This isn't a substantive argument, but it's a piece of good solid evidence with plenty more around:
"The ICJ in that case was of the view that the concept of a single maritime boundary does not stem from multilateral treaty law but from state practice and that it finds its explanation in the wish of States to establish one uninterrupted boundary line delimiting the various -- partially coincident -- zones of maritime jurisdiction appertaining to them.[48] The Court then turned to the question of whether there are special circumstances which make it necessary to adjust the equidistance line as provisionally drawn in order to obtain an equitable result in relation to this part of the single maritime boundary to be fixed. "
url: http://www.transnational-dispute-management.com/samples/freearticles/tv1-1-article_36.htm
Fairly and squarely in the remit of international law, I submit.
Asker: Let's put it this way, Richard. I've looked at both translations and I'm reasonably satisfied that "special circumstance" is appropriate in the context I'm dealing with (in which I can hardly find any relevant references at all to your term). You have indeed demonstrated that your suggestion is in use, and you will note that I acknowledged this when I closed the question and again when you responded to that. However, you have not explained why the other term is "wrong" and "absurd" rather than "possible", and in the absence of explanations (rather than "mises en demeure"), I'm not learning much, which is a shame.
Asker: Dear Richard, you have finally produced some clear evidence demonstrating how *both* terms are translated, in other words, some objective proof of your assertions. I was mistaken and hereby apologise for my mistake. I'll edit the glossary accordingly if I can manage to do so.
It's just a shame to have to wade through all your "we all know" stuff to get there. I *don't* know, which is why I'm asking, but I certainly don't find being browbeaten helps the learning experience or makes this an enjoyable environment. Have a good weekend.
Asker: Dear Richard,
Please see the following two links to official translations of the same texts by the OECD:
http://www.oecd.org/document/3/0,2340,fr_2649_201185_1933123_1_1_1_1,00.html (French)
http://www.oecd.org/document/60/0,2340,en_2649_201185_1933116_1_1_1_1,00.html
(English)
This is precisely the context I am working in. Do you have an issue with the translation on these sites?
Asker: You are free to suggest a better way of framing my original question within the limits of this site, and to take up your assessment that the OECD's official translation is "careless" with them. There is absolutely no further doubt in my mind that for my purposes the translation is both the most accurate and the most readily understandable by those who will be needing to understand it. You have made your point (several times) about the best way to look for translations in the specific context of legal rulings by international law bodies and as I have already stated, for my part this is duly noted.
|
|
|
|
| |
The translation workplace 
