French: qui ne seraient pas à l'origineEnglish translation: including those that were not at the origin of / did not request/ did not order 
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| GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW) | | French term or phrase: | qui ne seraient pas à l'origine | | English translation: | including those that were not at the origin of / did not request/ did not order | | Entered by: | Enza Longo |
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French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - IT (Information Technology) / License Agreement | | French term or phrase: qui ne seraient pas à l'origine | Tout Développement Spécifique sera intégré au Progiciel sans frais supplémentaires.
Les Développements Spécifiques devront être immédiatement exploitables par toutes les sociétés du groupe XXXX dans le monde, y compris ceux qui ne seraient pas à l'origine des dits programmes spécifiques.
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| | Clarification request(s) and responseRob Grayson: 1:21pm Jul 9, 2007: I think the source text is ambiguous, leading to a number of possible interpretations, as highlighted in comments below. Clarification with the client might be necessary for 100% certainty.
Enza Longo: 1:38pm Jul 9, 2007: Hi Rob - yes, I'm just as confused and will notify the client of the ambiguity.
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| | Selected response from:
Euqinimod
France
| Note from asker to answerer| 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer |
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22 mins confidence:   peer agreement (net): +1 |
| which did not originate/produce
Explanation:
...including any companies which did not originate (i.e. produce) the aforementioned specific programmes.
That's my slightly tentative reading of it, unless there's something I'm missing.
|  Rob Grayson
France
Works in field
Native speaker of:  English
PRO pts in category: 36
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27 mins confidence: |
| those who may not be (present/on board) at the outset
Explanation:
This seems rather ambiguous. When you're around at the start-up of something, there is an implication that you are somehow responsible or complicit, but the wording I chose leaves the question of active participation open.
| jlrsnyder
Canada
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
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| | Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) |
33 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1 |
| which may not in fact have been originally planned
Explanation:
Any developments whether or not they arose from the original (specific) development programme shall be made available to the group's companies.
| Alain Pommet
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 70
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1 hr confidence: peer agreement (net): +1 |
| including those developments not necessarily forming part of
Explanation:
They definitely mean development here. It takes tens of developments to reach one good program.
| Chris Landais
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 35
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2 hrs confidence: |
8 hrs confidence: |
| which may not have generated
Explanation:
Suggestion.
| Euqinimod
France
Works in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 16
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| Notes to answerer
Asker: Hello Quqinimod,
I should let you be aware of the fact that I gave you the points which were meant for Richard Benham and have contacted the moderator so that a correction could be made. By the way, your answer was one of the ones I was considering but Richard went to great lengths with his explanation so I felt he deserved the points. My apologies!
Asker: oops - I meant "Euqinimod"!
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5 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +3 |
| hummm......
Explanation:
I have thought about this for at least 30 seconds, and come to the following conclusion.
The expression "toutes..., y compris" suggests very strongly that what follows is included in the "toutes". This leads to a false agreement, since "ceux" is masculine and "toutes les sociétés" is feminine, as has already been pointed out. However, I think the suggestion of "toutes" before "les sociétés" and no "tous" before "Les Développements Spécifiques" is too strong to resist. I think the author is clearly a crap writer, and it is no surprise that he stuffed up the gender.
Another point: "des dits [sic] programmes spécifiques" seems to be just another way to refer to the "Développements Spécifiques". Why? Well, for one thing, there does not seem to be any reason for them to be the "said" programs, and in any case one is left wondering what the term is referring to if it's something different. And what do software people develop anyway, if not programs? This more or less gets rid of the possibility that "ceux" refers to the "Développements Spécifiques". (I do need some argument for this, because it could be argued on the contrary that the "y compris" relates to the "Tout" before "Développement Spécifiques", but this would, on my interpretation, result in the developments being at the origin of themselves....)
So what I think is happening is this. Different companies within the group may request the development of special programs for the needs of that company, but the software company is to ensure that these programs can be used by all companies in the group, including those not "at the origin of" (i.e. not having ordered) the program(s) in question.
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Note added at 4 days (2007-07-13 14:29:34 GMT) Post-grading
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It happens. I even awarded myself the points on a question once, due to a technical glitch... (The asker sent me an email about it, which included a link, and the link had the password in it....)
| Richard Benham
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 15
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| Notes to answerer
Asker: Sorry Richard, in my haste I hit the wrong button and gave someone else the points which were meant for you. I'm going to contact the moderator to see if this can be changed.
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The translation workplace 
