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amont/aval

English translation: preparation/implementation

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:amont/aval
English translation:preparation/implementation
Entered by: Stephanie Mitchel
Options:
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- Include in personal glossary

21:08 Jun 2, 2006
French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Law: Contract(s) / contract language
French term or phrase: amont/aval
Nos chers amis amont et aval. I think this might be along the lines of 'amont' meaning 'preliminary' hours and its counterpart, er, 'direct'? hours, i.e. hours spent working on the project rather than studying it? (Context: lawsuit brought by engineers to dispute billing of major scope-of-work and site changes to a project. Country: Algeria.)

Thanks!

"Pour les prestations techniques, par exemple, toutes les heures associées à l'ingénieur en chef en aval sont considérées comme un coût direct et toutes les heures associées à l'ingénieur projet en amont sont considérées comme un coût indirect."
Stephanie Mitchel
United States
Local time: 20:41
preparation vs implementation
Explanation:
if I had a dollar for every time I heard the stupid phrase...
Selected response from:

xxxsarahl
Local time: 17:41
Grading comment
thanks sarah!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3upstream / downstream
juliebarba
4preparation vs implementationxxxsarahl
3pre-production phase/post-production phaseMatthewLaSon
3pre-contract / post-contractxxxBourth
3beforehand/subsequentlyxxxCMJ_Trans


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
beforehand/subsequently


Explanation:
might work here

xxxCMJ_Trans
Local time: 02:41
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 203
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
preparation vs implementation


Explanation:
if I had a dollar for every time I heard the stupid phrase...

xxxsarahl
Local time: 17:41
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 30
Grading comment
thanks sarah!
Notes to answerer
Asker: (should I send you a buck?)


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  MatthewLaSon: Pre/post-production phase would encompass both preparation (pre) and implementation (post). Implementation is after it's been produced/designed. Anyways, "en aval" includes all costs post-production, and "en amont" are in the pre-production phase.
2 days4 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
pre-contract / post-contract


Explanation:
Well, it's one possibility.

It would make sense for post-contract work to be a direct cost, one that is (in one form or another, depending on the payment conditions of the contract, etc.) billed to the customer, and for work prior to contract signature (preparing a tender, etc.) to be "indirect", i.e. forming part of overheads which cannot be billed to the customer (even if, "indirectly", it is factored in).

Would need more info. on what the engineer is doing/has done, etc. to be more confident or come up with sth else.

Of course you could always use "upline" and "downline", esp. if the "watershed" in this case (sous-entendu) is a point in the phases of work.

Beachphone and a railway?

xxxBourth
Local time: 02:41
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 413
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hmm. would love to know what you mean by the last line - is it a play on words?

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23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
upstream / downstream


Explanation:
is probably a petrol related project....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2006-06-02 21:33:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

adj,adverb further along a river towards the sea; with the current.
French: en aval
http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=en av...

en amont - up stream - check the gloss I know that it's in there!

These are oil / petrol industry related words

It's not the hours it's the engineers that are en aval and en amont:

l'ingénieur en chef en aval

l'ingénieur projet en amont

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2006-06-03 08:53:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/16/47/36138740.pdf
gives an explanation of the concept

In any case it's clear to me that en amont / en aval refers to the engineers themselves, and the billing for their costs...

juliebarba
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:41
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 116
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, I did check the gloss but didn't find anything that was close enough to my context to give me confidence.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  zaphod: They really should check the glossaries
2 hrs
  -> I know...whilst it does refer to various phases of a project, it's a very specific wording

agree  Tom Thumb
14 hrs
  -> thanks

neutral  nnaemeka Odimegwu: a note, what is upstream with regards to the function of the person so stated? i have seen so much of amont and aval that i really wish someone would provide an inspiration
17 hrs
  -> hi. Can you please see the glossary because there are quite a few refs in there....

agree  MatthewLaSon: You've got my approval. I've done the research. You are right ! You can also say "pre/post production phase". Excellent!
2 days5 hrs
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1 day8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
pre-production phase/post-production phase


Explanation:
Hello,

Imagine an upside down "V", which would look like a * ^ *. If you're climbling up the left side of this symbol, the engineer is working towards a final product (pre-production). And, when he's walking down, he's in the post-production phase. At the pinnacle, the product is finished/completed. Thus, "upstream/downstream" analogy preferred in French.

Indirect costs are involved in the "pre-production phase" (planning, conception, testing, etc), while direct costs are in the post-production phase (installing, repairs, etc).

This is my understanding. I hope this helps.


    Reference: http://www.itech.fr/itechlyon/?page=ingenieur-chimie-des-for...
    Reference: http://www.eclecticengineering.com/site/modules.php?name=New...
MatthewLaSon
Local time: 20:41
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 314
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