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assignation à la solennité d'un domaine restreint

English translation: formalness is only required in limited cases

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:assignation à la solennité d'un domaine restreint
English translation:formalness is only required in limited cases
Entered by: Wendy Cummings
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09:47 Aug 25, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s) / external arbitration clauses
French term or phrase: assignation à la solennité d'un domaine restreint
An article discussing the use/validity of external arbitration clauses. The first section discusses the concepts of consensualism and formalism:

Sur le plan des contrats en général, si la primauté généralement reconnue au consensualisme s'est traduite, selon l'analyse la plus couramment retenue, par l'assignation à la solennité (entendu comme l'exigence d'un élément matériel, extérieur au consentement des parties, en l'absence duquel le contrat est frappé d'inefficacité, totale ou partielle, absolue ou relative) d'un domaine restraint, on n'en a pas moins assisté, au XX siècle, selon un mouvement couramment décrit, à un renouveau du formalisme.

Lovely for a Monday morning!

Thanks
Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:43
by restricting formalism requirements to a restricted/limited field
Explanation:
or "by applying formalism only to a restricted field"

I think that this is the idea

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-08-25 12:34:05 GMT)
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"*par* l'assignation à la solennité..." = "*by..."

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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 14:15:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yes indeed, even though the meanings are pretty close. 'Solennité', here, IMO, is a reinforced or more 'visible' formalism.

Would 'by restricting requirements for solemn acts/actions/measures' fit in Eng ? (sounds strange to my ears, hence my first proposal - but my ears are those of a French native speaker!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 14:24:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See refs. below, solennité really refers (only) to formality, in a legal context. I cannot find a suitable English synonym for "formality" in such context (except 'solemnity/solemn' but I am not fully happy with them) - but I keep on trying !


-- CNRS Univ de Caen - dictionary of synonyms :
"Votre requête est : "solennité" (solennité). Il y a 13 synonymes.
solennité : apparat, appareil, célébration, cérémonial, cérémonie, emphase, fête, formalité, gravité, majesté, pompe, raideur, somptuosité."
http://elsap1.unicaen.fr/cgi-bin/trouvebis2?requete=solennit...

-- Contrat solennel
Contrat qui n'est valable que s'il est passé sous certaines formes.
Cette forme peut être :
Un acte notarié : acte authentique, tels que la donnation ou le contrat de mariage.
Un acte sous-seing privé, tels que le contrat de location ou le contrat de bail.
Contrat dont la formation nécessite un accord de volontés constaté dans un acte, sous peine de nullité. (ex. contrat d'hypothèque, de donation, de société, de vente de fonds de commerce).
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrat_solennel

http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/formality


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 14:34:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Littré French dictionary :

_ solennité
nf (so-la-ni-té)
(...) 3Formalités qui rendent un acte authentique. La solennité d'un testament, d'un serment.

http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/s...

_ formalité
nf (for-ma-li-té)
1Manière formelle, expresse, de procéder dans certains actes civils, judiciaires, administratifs, religieux. Remplir les formalités nécessaires à la validité d'un contrat. Passer sur les formalités.
Les délibérations ne furent plus qu'une formalité inutile. [Bossuet, Discours sur l'histoire universelle]
Formalités intrinsèques, celles qui constituent l'essence même d'un acte, sans lesquelles un acte ne saurait exister. Formalités extrinsèques, celles qui ont pour objet de constater l'existence d'une convention.

http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/f...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 14:37:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

today "(acte/contrat) solennel" would refer mostly to a doc/contract signed before a notary. But I do not think that this covers the whole meaning of "solemnity" in your text.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2008-08-25 15:03:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yes, I understand and agree... What about 'formalness'? Not very legalese but...

Merriam Webster:
formal[1,adjective]
Main Entry:
1for·mal
Pronunciation:
\ˈfȯr-məl\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Latin formalis, from forma
Date:
14th century
(...)
2 a: following or according with established form, custom, or rule <lacked formal schooling> <a formal dinner party> <formal attire> b: done in due or lawful form <a formal contract> <received formal recognition>
3 a: characterized by punctilious respect for form : methodical <very formal in all his dealings> b: rigidly ceremonious : prim
(...)
synonyms see ceremonial
— for·mal·ly \-mə-lē\ adverb
— for·mal·ness noun


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2008-08-25 15:04:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ref. MW : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/formalness

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2008-08-26 14:54:25 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

thank you Wendy - Reading your questions of today re the same document, I agree: this is a lovely text indeed - even for a Tuesday afternoon!
Selected response from:

Aude Sylvain
France
Local time: 04:43
Grading comment
My final version is: even though the most commonly accepted analysis is that the precedence generally accorded to consensualism means that the requirement for formalness (understood as the need for a material element to exist, beyond simply the parties’ consent, in the absence of which the contract is fully or partially, absolutely or relatively ineffective) only applies to a limited field, during the 20th century we have nevertheless witnessed, using a commonly described movement, a renewal of formalism.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3by restricting formalism requirements to a restricted/limited fieldAude Sylvain
Summary of reference entries provided
Aude Sylvain

Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
by restricting formalism requirements to a restricted/limited field


Explanation:
or "by applying formalism only to a restricted field"

I think that this is the idea

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-08-25 12:34:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"*par* l'assignation à la solennité..." = "*by..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 14:15:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yes indeed, even though the meanings are pretty close. 'Solennité', here, IMO, is a reinforced or more 'visible' formalism.

Would 'by restricting requirements for solemn acts/actions/measures' fit in Eng ? (sounds strange to my ears, hence my first proposal - but my ears are those of a French native speaker!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 14:24:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See refs. below, solennité really refers (only) to formality, in a legal context. I cannot find a suitable English synonym for "formality" in such context (except 'solemnity/solemn' but I am not fully happy with them) - but I keep on trying !


-- CNRS Univ de Caen - dictionary of synonyms :
"Votre requête est : "solennité" (solennité). Il y a 13 synonymes.
solennité : apparat, appareil, célébration, cérémonial, cérémonie, emphase, fête, formalité, gravité, majesté, pompe, raideur, somptuosité."
http://elsap1.unicaen.fr/cgi-bin/trouvebis2?requete=solennit...

-- Contrat solennel
Contrat qui n'est valable que s'il est passé sous certaines formes.
Cette forme peut être :
Un acte notarié : acte authentique, tels que la donnation ou le contrat de mariage.
Un acte sous-seing privé, tels que le contrat de location ou le contrat de bail.
Contrat dont la formation nécessite un accord de volontés constaté dans un acte, sous peine de nullité. (ex. contrat d'hypothèque, de donation, de société, de vente de fonds de commerce).
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrat_solennel

http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/formality


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 14:34:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Littré French dictionary :

_ solennité
nf (so-la-ni-té)
(...) 3Formalités qui rendent un acte authentique. La solennité d'un testament, d'un serment.

http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/s...

_ formalité
nf (for-ma-li-té)
1Manière formelle, expresse, de procéder dans certains actes civils, judiciaires, administratifs, religieux. Remplir les formalités nécessaires à la validité d'un contrat. Passer sur les formalités.
Les délibérations ne furent plus qu'une formalité inutile. [Bossuet, Discours sur l'histoire universelle]
Formalités intrinsèques, celles qui constituent l'essence même d'un acte, sans lesquelles un acte ne saurait exister. Formalités extrinsèques, celles qui ont pour objet de constater l'existence d'une convention.

http://littre.reverso.net/dictionnaire-francais/definition/f...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 14:37:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

today "(acte/contrat) solennel" would refer mostly to a doc/contract signed before a notary. But I do not think that this covers the whole meaning of "solemnity" in your text.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2008-08-25 15:03:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yes, I understand and agree... What about 'formalness'? Not very legalese but...

Merriam Webster:
formal[1,adjective]
Main Entry:
1for·mal
Pronunciation:
\ˈfȯr-məl\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Latin formalis, from forma
Date:
14th century
(...)
2 a: following or according with established form, custom, or rule <lacked formal schooling> <a formal dinner party> <formal attire> b: done in due or lawful form <a formal contract> <received formal recognition>
3 a: characterized by punctilious respect for form : methodical <very formal in all his dealings> b: rigidly ceremonious : prim
(...)
synonyms see ceremonial
— for·mal·ly \-mə-lē\ adverb
— for·mal·ness noun


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2008-08-25 15:04:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ref. MW : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/formalness

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2008-08-26 14:54:25 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

thank you Wendy - Reading your questions of today re the same document, I agree: this is a lovely text indeed - even for a Tuesday afternoon!

Aude Sylvain
France
Local time: 04:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 58
Grading comment
My final version is: even though the most commonly accepted analysis is that the precedence generally accorded to consensualism means that the requirement for formalness (understood as the need for a material element to exist, beyond simply the parties’ consent, in the absence of which the contract is fully or partially, absolutely or relatively ineffective) only applies to a limited field, during the 20th century we have nevertheless witnessed, using a commonly described movement, a renewal of formalism.
Notes to answerer
Asker: I think I get where you're coming from, but given that the ST uses the terms consensualisme, formalisme AND solennite, would it not be best to avoid translating solennite as formalism?

Asker: The meaning is implied, insofar as we are discussing contracts, which are often signed in the presence of witnesses (poss a notary). I do think you are right to beleive the word is being used almost synonymously with formalism, but I would like if possible to retain the distinction between the two of them.

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Reference comments


2 hrs
Reference

Reference information:
still trying to find a suitable translation,
but the sentence may be clearer for you if turned this way :

... même si la primauté (...) s'est traduite, selon l'analyse la plus couramment retenuE, par le fait de limiter la solennité à un domaine restreint, on a assisté (...) à un renouveau du formalisme.

= Selon l'analyse courante, on limitait le formalisme (solennité, nécessité d'un acte écrit et/ou de l'accomplissement de conditions de forme particulières sans lequel la décision est nulle) à un domaine restreint, mais on a assisté au XXè siècle à un renouveau du formalisme (sous-entend que le formalisme est appliqu à un domaine plus large, je suppose)

Aude Sylvain
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 58
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