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nu-propriétaire

English translation: 1. beneficial owner 2. remainderman (Will trust); (US) reversionary heir 3. reversioner (lease)


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:nu-propriétaire
English translation:1. beneficial owner 2. remainderman (Will trust); (US) reversionary heir 3. reversioner (lease)
Entered by: Tom Thumb
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16:57 Oct 30, 2009
French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Law: Taxation & Customs / A Commercial Rates Return Form
French term or phrase: nu-propriétaire
The form asks if the proprietor or usufructor is a legal entity. Then later: "En cas d'usufruit, nom, prénom et adresse du nu-propriétaire.

Does this simply mean the usufructor? I'm confused. Thanks.
Colin Morley
France
Local time: 02:52
1. beneficial owner 2. remainderman (Will trust) 3. reversioner (lease)
Explanation:
- not the same as the beneficiary, contrary to UK law academics' opinions, but the actual owner.

Usufruit, contrary to French lawyers' opinion, does double gen. as a trust in equity as the root of the word comes into English law via feudal uses of land whilst the owner was away crusading etc. Spec. can be a life interest or life tenancy.

Bare owner, unfortunately, is false friend as, in Eng. law, the only link is with a bare trust vs. an express trust.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-10-30 20:12:32 GMT)
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PS it is the usufruitier/'usufructor' who is the beneficiary or life tenant.
Selected response from:

Tom Thumb
Local time: 02:52
Grading comment
Merci
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +2bare owner (owner without usufruct or use)etienne muylle i wallace
5naked ownerrivercrossroads
41. beneficial owner 2. remainderman (Will trust) 3. reversioner (lease)
Tom Thumb


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
bare owner (owner without usufruct or use)


Explanation:
Le Docte Juridical Dictinary

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Note added at 4 mins (2009-10-30 17:01:42 GMT)
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Dictionary, of course

etienne muylle i wallace
Spain
Local time: 01:52
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in FrenchFrench
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks - I begin to see what this means now, though 'bare owner' is perhaps not the best translation for a question meant to be understood by the layman. I'm very grateful indeed for the explanation.

Asker: Thanks. I have read everyone's comments with great interest and thoroughly re-read the context of the piece. I have settled on beneficial/bare owner with a small added explanation. Thanks to everyone who contributed to such an interesting legal debate.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Chris Hall: Bare owner is the opposite to usufructor.
2 hrs
  -> thanks

agree  B D Finch: This is the correct term.
19 hrs
  -> thanks
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
1. beneficial owner 2. remainderman (Will trust) 3. reversioner (lease)


Explanation:
- not the same as the beneficiary, contrary to UK law academics' opinions, but the actual owner.

Usufruit, contrary to French lawyers' opinion, does double gen. as a trust in equity as the root of the word comes into English law via feudal uses of land whilst the owner was away crusading etc. Spec. can be a life interest or life tenancy.

Bare owner, unfortunately, is false friend as, in Eng. law, the only link is with a bare trust vs. an express trust.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2009-10-30 20:12:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS it is the usufruitier/'usufructor' who is the beneficiary or life tenant.

Example sentence(s):
  • Beneficial owner is a legal term where specific property rights ("use and title") in equity belong to a person even though legal title of the property belongs to another person.

    Reference: http://iate.europa.eu/iatediff/SearchByQuery.do;jsessionid=9...
    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law%3A_contracts...
Tom Thumb
Local time: 02:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 31
Grading comment
Merci
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks. I have read everyone's comments with great interest and thoroughly re-read the context of the piece. I have settled on beneficial/bare owner with a small added explanation. Thanks to everyone who contributed to such an interesting legal debate.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Chris Hall: I am a bit confused by all this. Obviously, you seem to be a legal expert. To me, the one and only correct answer of this term is "bare owner".
2 days2 hrs
  -> Can you or anyone else provide any non-ProZ authority for bare owner? We need more analysis than 'bald' statements and self-serving repetition of non-existent terms like usufructor.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
naked owner


Explanation:
Naked owner is the term used in the US at least. I've seen it used by stock brokers when the father has died, the mother has usufruct of the investment/investment income, but the children are the naked owners. At the mother's death, the children inherit the investment. I agree completely with the definition "owner without usufruct or use." Well put.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-10-30 20:16:16 GMT)
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Thanks, Chris. The asker probably wants the British "bare owner" since U.S. term wasn't requested. Here a web page with naked owner: "The total use includes the right to exclude the children, or naked owners, from the property while that spouse has the usufruct." See first 2 paragraphs under USUFRUCT on this web page, if you ever have a U.S. client. Thanks again. http://www.meocpa.com/usufruct.html

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Note added at 1 day23 hrs (2009-11-01 16:51:05 GMT)
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Reply to asker's request for more "user-friendly" term: leave out "bare" and use "owner" since the usufructor is not the owner.

rivercrossroads
United States
Local time: 19:52
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Very grateful for the explanation. I can see why either "naked" or "bare" owner would be used. I just wonder if there is a more 'user-friendly' way of trying to express this without a long note at the end. Thank You.

Asker: Thanks. I have read everyone's comments with great interest and thoroughly re-read the context of the piece. I have settled on beneficial/bare owner with a small added explanation. Thanks to everyone who contributed to such an interesting legal debate.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Chris Hall: As far as I am aware, it is "bare owner". I am UK English so will stick to neutral here. Maybe "naked owner" is used in US English, however not in UK English.
17 mins

neutral  B D Finch: To a British reader, this would definitely mean an owner with no clothes on!
17 hrs
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Changes made by editors
Nov 3, 2009 - Changes made by Tom Thumb:
Edited KOG entryTom Thumb's old entry - "nu-propriétaire" => "1. beneficial owner 2. remainderman (Will trust) 3. reversioner (lease)"
Nov 3, 2009 - Changes made by Tom Thumb:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term => KOG term


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