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rapport à la succession

English translation: inclusion of share made over in advance in the estate

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:Rapport à la succession
English translation:inclusion of share made over in advance in the estate
Entered by: Eutychus
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11:05 Jan 15, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Inheritance (real estate)
French term or phrase: rapport à la succession
From instructions to a solicitor with respect to an inter vivos donation; they are to:

"Convenir que le rapport à faire par le donataire à la succession du donateur s'effectuera en avancement d’hoirie."

I *think* I understand what's going on here, but your comments on the precise meaning of "rapport" and "à la succession" and how these fit together, as well as any nice ways of saying this, would be most welcome!
Eutychus
Local time: 18:05
my understanding
Explanation:
(could be wrong), my understanding based on the link I posted above : any gifts (money or whatever) given by a person during their lifetime to one of their children for example, will be figuratively "taken back/returned" to the estate for the purposes of calculating how the estate will be definitively carved up.

Basically anything given away will be taken into consideration and classed as part of the inheritance/estate.



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Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-15 12:13:50 GMT)
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The Jersey Law Review
It could also be argued that the Jersey customary law concept of *rapport à la masse[28]* is another form of restriction because a Jersey domiciled individual would know that in certain circumstances an inter vivos gift of his meubles could be challenged and set aside after his death.
http://www.jerseylegalinfo.je/Publications/jerseylawreview/O...

In Louisiana it's called 'hotchpot'
hotchpot n. the putting together, blending or mixing of various properties in order to achieve equal division among beneficiaries or heirs
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/hotchpot

probably no set translation here!
Selected response from:

juliebarba
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:05
Grading comment
One of those times it would have been nice to award points to more than one answerer as both juliebarba and rufinus have contributed much here, as have Bourth and BDFinch - great team effort. Especial thanks to juliebarba in the end for the useful links. I'll remember you all in my will ;)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
2 +3my understanding
juliebarba
4added back into the estate for purposes of distributionAttorney DC Bar
1 -1report to heirsxxxBourth


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Rapport à la succession (dans cette phrase)
my understanding


Explanation:
(could be wrong), my understanding based on the link I posted above : any gifts (money or whatever) given by a person during their lifetime to one of their children for example, will be figuratively "taken back/returned" to the estate for the purposes of calculating how the estate will be definitively carved up.

Basically anything given away will be taken into consideration and classed as part of the inheritance/estate.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-15 12:13:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Jersey Law Review
It could also be argued that the Jersey customary law concept of *rapport à la masse[28]* is another form of restriction because a Jersey domiciled individual would know that in certain circumstances an inter vivos gift of his meubles could be challenged and set aside after his death.
http://www.jerseylegalinfo.je/Publications/jerseylawreview/O...

In Louisiana it's called 'hotchpot'
hotchpot n. the putting together, blending or mixing of various properties in order to achieve equal division among beneficiaries or heirs
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/hotchpot

probably no set translation here!

juliebarba
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:05
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 60
Grading comment
One of those times it would have been nice to award points to more than one answerer as both juliebarba and rufinus have contributed much here, as have Bourth and BDFinch - great team effort. Especial thanks to juliebarba in the end for the useful links. I'll remember you all in my will ;)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxBourth: You've got it.
32 mins
  -> Thanks. Unbelievable that you can't decide on your on will.

agree  B D Finch
4 hrs
  -> thanks BD

agree  xxxAdrian MM.: brought into hotchpot is also Eng. law on intestacy by 'persons entitled' for lifetime 'advancements' made.
1 day6 hrs
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Rapport à la succession (dans cette phrase)
report to heirs


Explanation:
Don't know a lot about inheritance law, but my guess is that those expecting to get the inheritance (under French law it's codified, so you have to bend over double backwards to give it to anyone but your children) have to be informed that they can look forward to having less to squander if someone suddenly finds they are getting doublejointed in their old age and start doing some "calisthénique successorale".

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Note added at 28 mins (2008-01-15 11:34:19 GMT)
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Of course by making a "donation" you can legally give money to one of your rightful heirs (at least) before you snuff it. If you live a further 10 years (I think), that amount is discounted from the inheritance. If you don't, it is deducted from that portion of the whole, including that amount, that the beneficiary would normally have benefitted from.

I'm not planning to die in France. Too complicated.

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-15 12:43:30 GMT)
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Sorry, I was confusing with the inheritance tax on "donations". To get around the tax (now largely abolished) one could, every 10 years, "donate" up to a certain amount without inheritance tax being due on it. Those sums would be REINTEGRATED into the total inheritance at the time of death.

Puts the expression "living on borrowed time" in a different light, doesn't it!

xxxBourth
Local time: 18:05
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 254

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  juliebarba: if you see the last link I posted above, I think it's about returning assets to the estate/inheritance - although not literally - it's about including all original assets in the final decision
18 mins

disagree  Attorney DC Bar: Interesting stuff, though.
2 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Rapport à la succession (dans cette phrase)
added back into the estate for purposes of distribution


Explanation:
Translating the headline phrase is easy: translating the whole sentence is more difficult.

"Convenir que le rapport à faire par le donataire à la succession du donateur s'effectuera en avancement d’hoirie."

The only thing that makes sense to me is:

"To agree that the gift shall be added back into the donor's estate by the donee for purposes of distribution."

The sentence as a whole seems tautologous, since a gift made 'en avancement d'hoirie' is by definition one that must be 'rapporter a la succession', unless I'm missing something. Perhaps someone else can find the nuance, but to me, if the gift is not 'preciputaire', 'hors part' or 'dispense de rapport', it is 'en avancement d'hoirie' and therefore must be added back into the estate (rapporter a la succession) for purposes of distribution. What would make sense would be 'Convenir que la donation sera effectuee en avancement d'hoirie de telle sorte qu'elle sera rapportee a la succession du defunt." In other words, I'm willing to think the lawyer who drafted this got mixed up. Here are the relevant definitions for those willing to grapple with this.

Cornu, "Rapport des donations": Rapport a la succession ab intestat par un coheritier qui accepte celle-ce, des donations qu'il avait recues du defunt en avancement d'hoirie (non preciputaires et sans dispense de rapport)

Cornu: "Avancement d'hoirie": liberalite faite a un heritier presomptif par anticipation sur ce qui pourra lui advenir dans la succession du donateur et comme une sort d'avance sur sa part successorale, qui, a la difference d'une donation par preciput et hors part ou avec dispense de rapport doit, lors du deces du donateur, etre rapportee en nature ou en moins prenant a la succession de ceui-ci, par l'heritier gratifie"

'Preciputaire', "dispense de rapport' and 'hors part' are all different ways of saying that the heir can keep the gift he received in advance without adding it back into the estate for purposes of distribution. (See each term in Cornu).

Attorney DC Bar
Local time: 18:05
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 205

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: A will eventually inherit some dosh from B, but B is going strong and A needs € now. B gives A n€ as an advance on what he will eventually get on B's death, but not as an extra bung??? Excuse the legal jargon.
2 hrs
  -> you got it. 'Bung' of course being derived from Old Norman Law French 'lez boung', from the Latin 'bungus' meaning 'a hole into which money is poured' or 'sporting trireme', but that's another story.
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Changes made by editors
Jun 18, 2011 - Changes made by Stéphanie Soudais:
Term askedRapport à la succession (dans cette phrase) » rapport à la succession


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