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sauf l'indemnité

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13:18 Feb 20, 2008
This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer

French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
French term or phrase: sauf l'indemnité
(Art. 1120 du Code civil) :
"Néanmoins on peut se porter fort pour un tiers, en promettant le fait de celui-ci, sauf l'indemnité contre celui qui s'est porté fort ou qui a promis de faire ratifier, si le tiers refuse de tenir l'engagement."

I can't get my head around this: "subject to" doesn't seem to fit. "with an indemnity..." seems the right meaning... but "sauf" doesn't mean "with"... and it's a def. art. Any insight appreciated.
Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:24
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Summary of answers provided
4 +1minus the indemnity
Chris Hall
4excepting
Valerie Scaletta
4excluding the indemnity
Angeliki Papadopoulou
3with/subject to...xxxcmwilliams


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
excluding the indemnity


Explanation:
sauf is except, excluding

Angeliki Papadopoulou
Greece
Local time: 10:24
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek, Native in EnglishEnglish
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
excepting


Explanation:
excepting, excluding

Valerie Scaletta
Italy
Local time: 09:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sauf l\'indemnité
minus the indemnity


Explanation:
sauf = except, but minus is better here.

Chris Hall
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 187
Notes to answerer
Asker: sorry, but how can you claim that putting "minus the indemnity" at this point in the phrase actually makes the sentence meaningful? "Minus" from what?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Angeliki Papadopoulou: This works better, I agree!
1 min
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
with/subject to...


Explanation:
I think you're right - excluding, etc. doesn't work here.

I've found a (poor) English translation on the Legifrance site. They use 'subject to a compensation'

http://195.83.177.9/code/liste.phtml?lang=uk&c=22&r=439

Or perhaps you could turn it around with something like....should the third party refuse/fail to .....




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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-02-20 16:17:17 GMT)
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yes, I agree. The English wording is not very good. I'm not sure about the French wording.

Why don't you post this in the French monolingual pair as well?

xxxcmwilliams
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:24
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 84
Notes to answerer
Asker: ah, finally, I knew someone would come up with sthg sensible, and since this is the civil code there had to be an official translation somewhere. Strikes me as a very clumsy wording... I'd really like to know whether to a French-speaker this article of the civil code appears to be properly drafted... If so, what am I not understanding? Why the definite article, for example?

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