sauf l'indemnité

13:18 Feb 20, 2008

This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer

French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)

French term or phrase: sauf l'indemnité

(Art. 1120 du Code civil) :
"Néanmoins on peut se porter fort pour un tiers, en promettant le fait de celui-ci, sauf l'indemnité contre celui qui s'est porté fort ou qui a promis de faire ratifier, si le tiers refuse de tenir l'engagement."

I can't get my head around this: "subject to" doesn't seem to fit. "with an indemnity..." seems the right meaning... but "sauf" doesn't mean "with"... and it's a def. art. Any insight appreciated.

Mpoma KudoZ activity Questions: 1027 (4 open) (91 closed without grading) Answers: 384 United Kingdom
Local time: 07:28

Summary of answers provided

4 +1

minus the indemnity

Chris Hall

excluding the indemnity

Angeliki Papadopoulou

excepting

Valerie Scaletta

with/subject to...

cmwilliams (X)

Discussion entries: 1

Answers

12 mins confidence:

excluding the indemnity

Explanation:
sauf is except, excluding

Angeliki Papadopoulou
Greece
Local time: 09:28
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Greek,

English

14 mins confidence:

excepting

Explanation:
excepting, excluding

Valerie Scaletta
Italy
Local time: 08:28
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Italian

27 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

sauf l\'indemnité minus the indemnity

Explanation:
sauf = except, but minus is better here.

Chris Hall
Local time: 07:28
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 187

Notes to answerer

Asker: sorry, but how can you claim that putting "minus the indemnity" at this point in the phrase actually makes the sentence meaningful? "Minus" from what?

2 hrs confidence:

with/subject to...

Explanation:
I think you're right - excluding, etc. doesn't work here.

I've found a (poor) English translation on the Legifrance site. They use 'subject to a compensation'

http://195.83.177.9/code/liste.phtml?lang=uk&c=22&r=439

Or perhaps you could turn it around with something like....should the third party refuse/fail to .....

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-02-20 16:17:17 GMT)
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yes, I agree. The English wording is not very good. I'm not sure about the French wording.

Why don't you post this in the French monolingual pair as well?

cmwilliams (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:28
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 84

Notes to answerer

Asker: ah, finally, I knew someone would come up with sthg sensible, and since this is the civil code there had to be an official translation somewhere. Strikes me as a very clumsy wording... I'd really like to know whether to a French-speaker this article of the civil code appears to be properly drafted... If so, what am I not understanding? Why the definite article, for example?

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