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condamnation in solidum

English translation: "In Solidum"/solidary (?) conviction

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:condamnaton "In Solidum"
English translation:"In Solidum"/solidary (?) conviction
Entered by: Clive Wilshin
Options:
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06:44 Aug 5, 2002
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / legal
French term or phrase: condamnation in solidum
So I did enough Latin to know that in solidum = for the whole sum

Can you talk about an "in solidum" conviction in legalese?
Clive Wilshin
Local time: 11:16
in solidum conviction (sentence)
Explanation:
Tremium:
ANGLAIS
FRANÇAIS
ESPAGNOL
Domaine(s)
  – Obligations and
Responsibilities (Civil Law)
  – Phraseology
Domaine(s)
  – Obligations et responsabilités
(droit civil)
  – Phraséologie
 
in solidum Source
CORRECT, LATIN

in solidum Source LATIN

OBS – «En totalité».
Expression utilisée pour
dire qu'une personne est
tenue avec d'autres à la
totalité de la dette. On
l'emploie surtout pour
désigner une obligation à
la totalité de la dette qui
se distinguerait de la
véritable solidarité. Il y a


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-05 06:57:29 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yes, you can use it as such!
Selected response from:

Francis MARC
Lithuania
Local time: 13:16
Grading comment
It's too bad I can't award both of you points on this one, as these are two splendidly researched items. I lean towards Marc's rendition, if only because this is a 'test' translation for a new customer, and I am trying to be as conservative as possible, so it is probably not the time to be 'coining' phrases, despite your impeccable logic, Mr. Chadwick! If you don't mind I shall also put your version as an alternative into the glossary. Thanks, gentlemen.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1solidary convictionxxxR.J.Chadwick
4 +1in solidum conviction (sentence)
Francis MARC
3solidary judgment
Yolanda Broad


  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
in solidum conviction (sentence)


Explanation:
Tremium:
ANGLAIS
FRANÇAIS
ESPAGNOL
Domaine(s)
  – Obligations and
Responsibilities (Civil Law)
  – Phraseology
Domaine(s)
  – Obligations et responsabilités
(droit civil)
  – Phraséologie
 
in solidum Source
CORRECT, LATIN

in solidum Source LATIN

OBS – «En totalité».
Expression utilisée pour
dire qu'une personne est
tenue avec d'autres à la
totalité de la dette. On
l'emploie surtout pour
désigner une obligation à
la totalité de la dette qui
se distinguerait de la
véritable solidarité. Il y a


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-05 06:57:29 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yes, you can use it as such!

Francis MARC
Lithuania
Local time: 13:16
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 228
Grading comment
It's too bad I can't award both of you points on this one, as these are two splendidly researched items. I lean towards Marc's rendition, if only because this is a 'test' translation for a new customer, and I am trying to be as conservative as possible, so it is probably not the time to be 'coining' phrases, despite your impeccable logic, Mr. Chadwick! If you don't mind I shall also put your version as an alternative into the glossary. Thanks, gentlemen.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Guereau
26 mins
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42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
solidary conviction


Explanation:
I have done a little research on this and there is, at least in English, a fine distinction to be draw between "joint", "several" and "solidary liabilities/obligaions".

The latin phrase “in solidum” is translated as “solidary” and occurs in relation to liabilities and obligations. English ‘solidary” is most often used in such contexts by itself without recourse to Latin, and in a wider range of applications. I could not find direct use of “solidary conviction” or “solidary sentence/sentencing” but some texts come quite close in associating the nature of a sentence with the solidary nature of the obligations of the defendants. E.g.:

Petitioner insists that by virtue of the clear wording of the statement, specifically the clause ". . . we jointly and severally agree and undertake . . .," and the concluding sentence on exhaustion, Chi's liability therein is solidary.
http://206.142.245.159/judjuris/juri1992/dec1992/gr_74886_19...

I therefore feel that it would be OK for the purposes of your translation to simply coin a phrase like “solidary conviction/sentence” because that already exists as a potential and intelligble phrase in English. This would be preferable to "in solidum conviction" because that Latin term is rare and not nearly so current as the equivalent "solidary" in legal contexts -- more people would be likely to understand you.

Below is some of the evidence – please ignore it if you think it is boring or of no interest to you:-

In solidum -- Latin term meaning for the whole. Where there are several co-obligants bound "in solidum", each is liable in full payment or performance, and the creditor may choose which of the obligants he will sue. Every person whose name appears on a bill, whether as acceptor or endorser, is liable in full payment of its contents although he may after payment do diligence against the others for relief. Those who in a joint obligation are not bound for the whole but only for their share are said to be liable "pro rata".
http://www.clickdocs.co.uk/glossary/in-solidum.htm

In solidum, liability see Solidary liability
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lrc.nsf/pages/r89index

In other respects they are united, in that they treat of their common interests in a common council, and that the Cantons today attribute to themselves in Solidum a right of control over a canton that would undertake something against the common interest.
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/history/unionsavoy.ht...

What happens if my co-tenant doesn’t pay his share of the rent? --One of the main responsibilities of a co-tenant is to pay the rent. Sometimes, however, one co-tenant does not pay his share of the rent. Can the landlord ask you to pay the full rent in this case? It depends. If you are jointly liable for payment, the answer is no and, to the contrary, if the obligation is solidary, the answer is yes. If you are jointly liable, then each co-tenant is only responsible for his share of the total rent. For example, Christine and Stephanie sign a lease together. If the rent is $600 and Christine does not pay, Stephanie cannot be asked to pay more than $300. Where the obligation is joint, the lease may not necessarily contain a distinct clause to this effect.
http://www.educaloi.qc.ca/TLR_Law/F01A_Capsules/index.php3?n...

Ñîëèäàðíîå îáÿçàòåëüñòâî
Ñîëèäàðíàÿ îòâåòñòâåííîñòü
Joint responsibility; Solidary responsibility
Ñîëèäàðíîå îáÿçàòåëüñòâî - îáÿçàòåëüñòâî ñ ìíîæåñòâåííîñòüþ ëèö, êîòîðîå ìîæåò âîçíèêíóòü êàê íà ñòîðîíå äîëæíèêà, òàê è íà ñòîðîíå êðåäèòîðà.
http://www.glossary.ru/cgi-bin/gl_sch2.cgi?R1dRurtl,tg9!wgko...

BILL C-47 (As passed by the House of Commons) ... of the duty, interest or other amount shall discharge the joint and several or solidary ... (a) on conviction on indictment, to a fine of not less than $50,000 and ...
http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/chambus/house/bills/gover...

I hope that helps.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-05 07:37:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

P.S. \"joint and several\" responsibility (i.e. both) can be equated with \"solidary\" responsibility -- but it may be that \"joint\" (by itself) and \"several\" (by itself) have distinct meanings -- a \"pro rata\" liability in the first case, and I\'m not sure what in the second case.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-05 07:37:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

P.S. \"joint and several\" responsibility (i.e. both) can be equated with \"solidary\" responsibility -- but it may be that \"joint\" (by itself) and \"several\" (by itself) have distinct meanings -- a \"pro rata\" liability in the first case, and I\'m not sure what in the second case.

xxxR.J.Chadwick
Local time: 18:16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Renata Liapis Papadopoulos
8 mins
  -> Thank you for your support
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2202 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
solidary judgment


Explanation:
I can't find any reliable references for "solidary conviction" or "in solidum conviction," but I do find "solidary judgment" used by courts in Canada and in Louisiana, both places where there is an overlap between French-based statutory law and Anglo case law. The problem with using "conviction" here is that "conviction" is the penalty imposed in criminal cases; no one is convicted in civil cases; rather a *judgment* is rendered against one of the parties.

Example sentence(s):
  • "the Government of Canada seeks a solidary judgment against XXXX"
  • "in Louisiana jurisprudence 'the generally accepted rule is that where a solidary judgment is sought against two defendants as ..."
Yolanda Broad
United States
Local time: 06:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12
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