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établissement

English translation: place of business

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10:52 Jul 14, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / company registration form
French term or phrase: établissement
A French government 'Cerfa' form.

I originally thought 'établissement' was the 'company' but this doesn't seem to be quite as straightforward as I hoped...

It starts with 'personne morale' and then deals with the 'établissement' - which I first took to mean the 'place' the company was set up but I'm starting to have doubts.

établissement principal
établissement secondaire
ancien établissement

Si maintien d'une activité, de ce fait, l'établissement est Siège - Principal - Secondaire.

établissement crée ou modifié
etc

Any guidance on what the distinction between the 'personne morale' and 'établissement' is would be most welcome as well as a translation. Thanks!

The form can be viewed / downloaded here:
http://reseaucfe.inpi.fr/formulaires/pdf/m2.pdf
Alain Pommet
Local time: 11:28
English translation:place of business
Explanation:
Bridge's legal dictionary gives "principal office" for both "siège" and établissement principal" however for the former it also gives "registered office" and for the latter, "principal place of business" which seems to make sense in your context.
For example, a big shop might not have its registered office on the premises.
Selected response from:

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 11:28
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for their contributions - this answer seemed the most suitable this case.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2place of business
Graham macLachlan
5establishmentxxxSpeakering
4 +1officestransword


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
offices


Explanation:
I think "établissement" means the offices/premises of the company i.e.

headquarters/registered office
secondary offices
former offices

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Note added at 29 minutos (2008-07-14 11:21:07 GMT)
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In the UK as far as I know, registered office and main office are the same. I would therefore put other/secondary offices for the second one in the list.

transword
Local time: 11:28
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Martin Cassell: except in the hierarchy listed, wouldn't siège be equivalent to 'registered office', and ét. principal to 'main/head office' (which could of course be the same address)?
7 mins

agree  Enza Longo
11 mins

disagree  xxxSpeakering: it means not just offices but also the whole business structure, including employees
1 hr
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
place of business


Explanation:
Bridge's legal dictionary gives "principal office" for both "siège" and établissement principal" however for the former it also gives "registered office" and for the latter, "principal place of business" which seems to make sense in your context.
For example, a big shop might not have its registered office on the premises.

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 11:28
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 298
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for their contributions - this answer seemed the most suitable this case.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  kashew: Covers it perfectly to my mind.
1 hr
  -> thanks kashew

agree  Richard Benham
11 hrs
  -> thanks Richard
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
establishment


Explanation:
like it is, the building and the whole business set up

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Note added at 5 hrs (2008-07-14 16:17:35 GMT)
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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
es·tab·lish·ment Audio Help [i-stab-lish-muhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the act or an instance of establishing.
2. the state or fact of being established.
3. something established; a constituted order or system.
4. (often initial capital letter) the existing power structure in society; the dominant groups in society and their customs or institutions; institutional authority (usually prec. by the): The Establishment believes exploring outer space is worth any tax money spent.
5. (often initial capital letter) the dominant group in a field of endeavor, organization, etc. (usually prec. by the): the literary Establishment.
6. a household; place of residence including its furnishings, grounds, etc.
7. a place of business together with its employees, merchandise, equipment, etc.
8. a permanent civil, military, or other force or organization.
9. an institution, as a school, hospital, etc.
10. the recognition by a state of a church as the state church.
11. the church so recognized, esp. the Church of England.
12. Archaic. a fixed or settled income.

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Note added at 15 hrs (2008-07-15 02:13:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

main establishment, secondary establishment, prior establishment.

xxxSpeakering
Native speaker of: Native in MacedonianMacedonian, Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat
PRO pts in category: 2

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Graham macLachlan: but how does that fit Alain's context?//your reply doesn't make sense//no, it doesn't make sense
36 mins
  -> how it doesn't fit? that is your problem:)

disagree  Richard Benham: Graham is right. It can't refer to the "whole set-up", or there would not be an "établissement principal" and an "établissement secondaire"!!
11 hrs

agree  rkillings: It's just 7, "a place of business". French companies have to get one SIREN for the enterprise/personne morale and a SIRET for each distinct establishment/physical place.
21 hrs
  -> thanks for the good analysis
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