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enfant naturel / lien de filiation naturel

English translation: natural-born child; child born out of wedlock

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:enfant naturel
English translation:natural-born child; child born out of wedlock
Entered by: charivoss
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01:06 Mar 27, 2002
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents / family law
French term or phrase: enfant naturel / lien de filiation naturel
French law on recognition of "enfants naturels" Termium gives "natural-born children" in addition to "illegitimate, out-of-wedlock", etc.
1) Can anyone confirm if "natural-born child" is used in English in this type of legal context, or would it simply be "out-of-wedlock" children?
2)"le caractere divisible de ce lien de filiation naturelle" - natural relationship? (out-of-wedlock or illegitimate relationship doesn't sound right...)
Thanks!
charivoss
Local time: 09:47
child born out of wedlock or natural-born child
Explanation:
Chari, if this is for a specific state or province, I would check their legislation, given that Termium shows various choices depending on province, i.e., New Brunswick and Ontario
Selected response from:

xxxPaulaMac
Grading comment
Thanks - unfortunately, I don't know what state/province it was for as I didn't have access to the end client. But since there were enough references to "natural child" and since I also found that as a definition under "natural" in the Websters dict., I went with that in order to stay close to the French, since the same text had also used "ne hors du mariage" in other places, but "enfant naturel" here.
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3natural-born child/filiation by bloodxxxdepgrl
5illegitimate child
Steven Hanley
4 +1child born out of wedlock (illegitimate, extra-marital)....ydmills
4 +1filiation naturelle = born out of wedlock / filiation légitime = born in wedlock
Steven Geller
4common law childxxxdepgrl
4child born out of wedlock or natural-born childxxxPaulaMac
4natural/ natural son
luskie
4child born out of wedlock
lefoque


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
natural/ natural son


Explanation:
this is how they say illegitimate/ illegitimate son

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Note added at 2002-03-27 01:13:45 (GMT)
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oops, child of course

luskie
Local time: 14:47
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 46
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
natural-born child/filiation by blood


Explanation:
or natural child, according to TERMIUM
2. filiation by blood for filiation naturelle, also TERMIUM

xxxdepgrl
PRO pts in pair: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  GILOU
2 hrs

agree  Dr. Chrys Chrystello
7 hrs

agree  Rebecca Lowery: definitely in UK English. We speak of the rights of the natural born child.
8 hrs
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
common law child


Explanation:
www.granddictionnaire.com

xxxdepgrl
PRO pts in pair: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Steven Geller: It means born in wedlock.
1 hr

agree  xxxR.J.Chadwick: This is one possibility, and a familiar expression
2 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
filiation naturelle = born out of wedlock / filiation légitime = born in wedlock


Explanation:
According to the European Court of Human Rights it means "born in wedlock"

In all three cases, the Court noted that Germany’s laws on custody and access were amended by the Law on Family Matters of 16 December 1997 (which came into effect on I July 1998) which entitles both the father and mother of a minor child born out of wedlock to have access to their child. These amendments demonstrated that the aims of the German laws applicable at the time of the events in the three cases in question (which occurred prior to 1998) - namely to protect the interests of children and their parents - could have been achieved without making a distinction on the grounds of whether the child concerned was born in or out of wedlock.

Dans les trois affaires, la Cour relève que les dispositions législatives allemandes sur les droits de garde et de visite ont été modifiées par la loi sur les affaires familiales (entrée en vigueur le 1er juillet 1998) qui donne à la fois au père et à la mère d’un enfant mineur né hors mariage un droit de visite à l’égard de leur enfant. Ces modifications montrent que les buts des lois allemandes applicables à l’époque des faits dans les trois affaires en question (survenus avant 1998) – c’est-à-dire protéger les intérêts des enfants et de leurs parents – auraient pu être atteints sans établir une distinction entre filiation naturelle et filiation légitime.



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Note added at 2002-03-27 03:26:58 (GMT)
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http://www.echr.coe.int/Eng/Press/2001/Oct/Sahin Sommerfeld ...

http://www.echr.coe.int/fr/Press/2001/oct/Sahin Sommerfeld H...

Steven Geller
Local time: 14:47
PRO pts in pair: 1246

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  irat56
3 hrs
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
child born out of wedlock


Explanation:
These days we no longr say bastard or illegitimate. Inthe US we sometimes say love child but that's usually when the parents are unmarried celebrities

lefoque
United States
Local time: 09:47
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 209
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
child born out of wedlock (illegitimate, extra-marital)....


Explanation:
But not "out-of-wedlock children"
Filiation naturelle is natural filiation. A natural child has in general the same rights and the same duties as a legitimate child in his/her relationships with his/her parents. He/she enters into the family of the progenitor. If, at the time of conception, the father or mother was in the bonds of marriage with another person, the rights of the infant may disrupt only to the extent that the law allows any agreements which this parent may have contracted. (Civ. C art. 334 - French law)- so it's the relationship between the child and the parent in the sight of the law.
Ref. Dahl's Law Dictionary
To translate this I would say "in (from) an extra-marital relationship"

ydmills
France
Local time: 14:47
PRO pts in pair: 36

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxNicola Da Si
1 hr
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
child born out of wedlock or natural-born child


Explanation:
Chari, if this is for a specific state or province, I would check their legislation, given that Termium shows various choices depending on province, i.e., New Brunswick and Ontario

xxxPaulaMac
PRO pts in pair: 324
Grading comment
Thanks - unfortunately, I don't know what state/province it was for as I didn't have access to the end client. But since there were enough references to "natural child" and since I also found that as a definition under "natural" in the Websters dict., I went with that in order to stay close to the French, since the same text had also used "ne hors du mariage" in other places, but "enfant naturel" here.
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3704 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
illegitimate child


Explanation:
Be careful: in English, a "natural born child" is NOT an illegitimate child: it is a child born naturally to its parents, not a foster child or adopted child.

Steven Hanley
United States
Local time: 09:47
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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