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enfant naturel / lien de filiation naturel

English translation: natural-born child; child born out of wedlock

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	enfant naturel
English translation:	natural-born child; child born out of wedlock
Entered by:	charivoss

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01:06 Mar 27, 2002

French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents / family law

French term or phrase: enfant naturel / lien de filiation naturel

French law on recognition of "enfants naturels" Termium gives "natural-born children" in addition to "illegitimate, out-of-wedlock", etc.
1) Can anyone confirm if "natural-born child" is used in English in this type of legal context, or would it simply be "out-of-wedlock" children?
2)"le caractere divisible de ce lien de filiation naturelle" - natural relationship? (out-of-wedlock or illegitimate relationship doesn't sound right...)
Thanks!

charivoss KudoZ activity Questions: 111 (none open) (1 without valid answers) (5 closed without grading) Answers: 24
Local time: 00:37

child born out of wedlock or natural-born child

Explanation:
Chari, if this is for a specific state or province, I would check their legislation, given that Termium shows various choices depending on province, i.e., New Brunswick and Ontario

Selected response from:

xxxPaulaMac

Grading comment

Thanks - unfortunately, I don't know what state/province it was for as I didn't have access to the end client. But since there were enough references to "natural child" and since I also found that as a definition under "natural" in the Websters dict., I went with that in order to stay close to the French, since the same text had also used "ne hors du mariage" in other places, but "enfant naturel" here.
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +3

natural-born child/filiation by blood

xxxdepgrl

illegitimate child

Steven Hanley

4 +1

child born out of wedlock (illegitimate, extra-marital)....

ydmills

4 +1

filiation naturelle = born out of wedlock / filiation légitime = born in wedlock

Steven Geller

common law child

xxxdepgrl

child born out of wedlock or natural-born child

xxxPaulaMac

natural/ natural son

luskie

child born out of wedlock

lefoque

Answers

4 mins confidence:

natural/ natural son

Explanation:
this is how they say illegitimate/ illegitimate son

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Note added at 2002-03-27 01:13:45 (GMT)
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oops, child of course

luskie
Local time: 06:37
Native speaker of:

Italian
PRO pts in pair: 46

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

natural-born child/filiation by blood

Explanation:
or natural child, according to TERMIUM
2. filiation by blood for filiation naturelle, also TERMIUM

xxxdepgrl
PRO pts in pair: 24

6 mins confidence:

common law child

Explanation:
www.granddictionnaire.com

xxxdepgrl
PRO pts in pair: 24

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

filiation naturelle = born out of wedlock / filiation légitime = born in wedlock

Explanation:
According to the European Court of Human Rights it means "born in wedlock"

In all three cases, the Court noted that Germany’s laws on custody and access were amended by the Law on Family Matters of 16 December 1997 (which came into effect on I July 1998) which entitles both the father and mother of a minor child born out of wedlock to have access to their child. These amendments demonstrated that the aims of the German laws applicable at the time of the events in the three cases in question (which occurred prior to 1998) - namely to protect the interests of children and their parents - could have been achieved without making a distinction on the grounds of whether the child concerned was born in or out of wedlock.

Dans les trois affaires, la Cour relève que les dispositions législatives allemandes sur les droits de garde et de visite ont été modifiées par la loi sur les affaires familiales (entrée en vigueur le 1er juillet 1998) qui donne à la fois au père et à la mère d’un enfant mineur né hors mariage un droit de visite à l’égard de leur enfant. Ces modifications montrent que les buts des lois allemandes applicables à l’époque des faits dans les trois affaires en question (survenus avant 1998) – c’est-à-dire protéger les intérêts des enfants et de leurs parents – auraient pu être atteints sans établir une distinction entre filiation naturelle et filiation légitime.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-27 03:26:58 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.echr.coe.int/Eng/Press/2001/Oct/Sahin Sommerfeld ...

http://www.echr.coe.int/fr/Press/2001/oct/Sahin Sommerfeld H...

Steven Geller
Local time: 06:37
PRO pts in pair: 1246

7 hrs confidence:

child born out of wedlock

Explanation:
These days we no longr say bastard or illegitimate. Inthe US we sometimes say love child but that's usually when the parents are unmarried celebrities

lefoque
United States
Local time: 00:37
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in pair: 209

8 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

child born out of wedlock (illegitimate, extra-marital)....

Explanation:
But not "out-of-wedlock children"
Filiation naturelle is natural filiation. A natural child has in general the same rights and the same duties as a legitimate child in his/her relationships with his/her parents. He/she enters into the family of the progenitor. If, at the time of conception, the father or mother was in the bonds of marriage with another person, the rights of the infant may disrupt only to the extent that the law allows any agreements which this parent may have contracted. (Civ. C art. 334 - French law)- so it's the relationship between the child and the parent in the sight of the law.
Ref. Dahl's Law Dictionary
To translate this I would say "in (from) an extra-marital relationship"

ydmills
Local time: 06:37
PRO pts in pair: 36

19 hrs confidence:

child born out of wedlock or natural-born child

Explanation:
Chari, if this is for a specific state or province, I would check their legislation, given that Termium shows various choices depending on province, i.e., New Brunswick and Ontario

xxxPaulaMac
PRO pts in pair: 324

Grading comment

3704 days confidence:

illegitimate child

Explanation:
Be careful: in English, a "natural born child" is NOT an illegitimate child: it is a child born naturally to its parents, not a foster child or adopted child.

Steven Hanley
Local time: 00:37
Native speaker of:

English

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enfant naturel / lien de filiation naturel

English translation: natural-born child; child born out of wedlock

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enfant naturel / lien de filiation naturel

English translation: natural-born child; child born out of wedlock

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ProZ.com ideas

KudoZ™ translation helpThe KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

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The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.