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gourmand vs. gourmet

English translation: indulgent v discerning

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09:38 Apr 1, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Marketing - Marketing / Market Research
French term or phrase: gourmand vs. gourmet
any snappy terms out there to describe these consumer profiles ?
ormiston
Local time: 21:35
English translation:indulgent v discerning
Explanation:
I always think of a gourmet as someone with discerning taste - and I got the idea of indulgent on reading katsy's prose.
Selected response from:

Emma Paulay
France
Local time: 21:35
Grading comment
agree with Richard about 'self indulgent' but this approach is perhaps the best. Let's keep at it ! how to distinguish between loving food & loving only 'good' food
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +7leave it in Frenchkatsy
5 +2glutton vs gourmet1045
3 +3indulgent v discerning
Emma Paulay
4 +1foodie vs. fine cuisine/fine dining
Marianna Staroselsky
5glutton X epicurean
Thais Maria Lips
3quantity-focused / quality-focusedMarc Glinert
4 -2lover of fine food vs expert chef
Ben Gaia MA


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
foodie vs. fine cuisine/fine dining


Explanation:
http://www.newbrunswick.com/diningentertainment/dining/fined...

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Note added at 30 mins (2007-04-01 10:09:14 GMT)
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Definitions of foodie on the Web:

* epicure: a person devoted to refined sensuous enjoyment (especially good food and drink) * wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn



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Note added at 35 mins (2007-04-01 10:13:49 GMT)
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Wikipedia goes into an extensive explanation of the nuances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foodie

Marianna Staroselsky
United States
Local time: 14:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Alain Pommet: According to answers.com (Am. En) a foodie is a gourmet.
21 mins
  -> Sure, or a gourmand, they're all variations of the same thing - seems to be a matter of preference.

agree  juliebarba
5 hrs
  -> Thanks juliebarba!

neutral  Marc Glinert: Agree with Alain
21 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
glutton vs gourmet


Explanation:
A gourmet is a person with a discriminating palate while a "gourmand" is a glutton.

1045
Canada
Local time: 15:35
PRO pts in category: 3

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Robin Levey
42 mins
  -> Thank you mediamatrix ...

neutral  katsy: indeed, but although I am partial to chocolate, and thus 'gourmande', I'm definitely not a glutton, and would not like to be described as such by market researchers.//IMO,'gourmand' here,is more about pleasure than over-indulging-my choc.consumption too:)
45 mins
  -> Moi aussi, j'aime le chocolat ... mais je ne suis pas un gourmand. I don't overindulge when eating chocolate ...

agree  Jeanette Phillips: yes, a gourmand is someone who likes to eat a lot, but not necessarilly partial
1 hr
  -> Merci Jeanette ...

neutral  Marc Glinert: I don't like glutton - seems too perjorative a term to use to describe a customer segment
17 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
glutton X epicurean


Explanation:
:-)

Thais Maria Lips
United States
Local time: 15:35
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +7
leave it in French


Explanation:
The two words exist in English...
Other words, like foodie (which is gourmet in UK English)/bon vivant/bon viveur/ etc, when you look them up in EN dictionary, often tend to mix up the idea of greedy enjoyment and appreciation of quality.



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Note added at 47 mins (2007-04-01 10:26:00 GMT)
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AND, keeping the French allows you not to be too pejorative about the 'gourmand' (for whom I can at present find no one-or two-word term which has a positive - or at least neutral - connotation)

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-04-01 10:45:56 GMT)
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@Ormiston:
My Collins dictionary says for 'gourmand': 'a person who enjoys eating and drinking in large amounts; a formal word, used showing disapproval.
In another more concise dictionary, I find 'a lover of good food'...
I would not dare to say that in the UK it is 'clearly understood' by the (wo)man in the street....
However, if you have the opportunity to be more inventive, why not? great!
E.g 'enjoying (your food) v. savouring/appreciating (your food)//

as you can see, still can't find any nouns, but have managed not to be pejorative (I hope!) hth

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-04-01 13:17:15 GMT)
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my post-prandial ponderings only add up to this:
food lover v. fine-food lover.......


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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-04-01 16:06:56 GMT)
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I realise I'm probably getting too serious about this, but I'd like to point out to the 'glutton' supporters, that 'gourmand', even with its sinful and OVER- indulgent overtones, can be, and is often, used in a very positive sense, especially in advertising - with the idea 'indulge yourself'/fais-toi plaisir', certainly not to say: 'this is for all you greedy-guts'.
It is different from the 'gourmet' idea (the discerning palate, the conoisseur, etc.)
Just one of many many hits on 'plaisirs gourmands' - introducing the restaurants etc. in St Malo
http://www.saint-malo-tourisme.com/fr/rubriques-principales/...

katsy
Local time: 21:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Melzie: the difference between French and English is that greed can only be a sin in English, I like my food or foody in conversation, gourmet written. I haven't seen many gourmands in English
1 hr
  -> Thanks Melzie :) Thought the 7 deadly sins existed in the 2 languages!! agree that concepts 'gourmand/gourmet are often confused in English. My thesaurus confirms this. I continue to ponder.... over my Sunday lunch!

agree  Alain Pommet: Yes, gluttony is definitely a sin -but it's a tough nut to find a neutral noun.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Alain - will also have a glass of wine... in vino veritas.... well you never know

agree  Jock
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Jock !

agree  Lidija Lazic: oui, manger en grande quantité vs savourer mais dans les deux cas des aliments de qualité.
4 hrs
  -> Thanks Lidija :)

agree  Can Altinbay
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Can :)

agree  Emma Paulay: M.Poilane's daughter (you know as in pain Poilane) has written to the Pope making a case for "gourmandise" not to be a sin. Just thought I'd share that with you.
6 hrs
  -> Thanks Emma! I just knew I shouldn't feel guilty about that chocolate :-)

agree  Jeanette Phillips: foodies are a little bit snobbish about their knowledge of food, but still like to eat a lot anyway
6 hrs
  -> Thanks Jeanette !

disagree  Jacqui Audouy: Sorry to throw a wet blanket all over this but I really can't agree that "gourmand" is commonly understood in English - and if it were, understood to mean WHAT??seeing as we experts don't really know......I'd go for the 'food-lover' vs fine-food lover..
9 hrs
  -> Thanks Jacqui for your comment. Please see my note at 1 hr on how well known gourmand is (or isn't); maybe indeed my final proposal. But my major point has been that gourmand is not glutton :-)

disagree  Sheila Wilson: No, Ormiston, I wouldn't say at all that it's gourmand is well-know in English (gourmet is, of course) / Agree that gourmand NE glutton
9 hrs
  -> Thanks Sheila for your comment. Please see my note at 1 hr on how well known gourmand is (or isn't). But my major point has been that gourmand is not glutton :-)

agree  kironne
9 hrs
  -> Thanks kironne !

neutral  Marc Glinert: Hi katsy - comments on my own reply post
21 hrs
  -> Hi Marc, have read and commented on your post :-)

agree  Richard Benham: I think that "gourmand" is well-enough known: at least the verb "gourmandise" is.....
1 day15 hrs
  -> Thanks Richard - that's what I thought too at first, but now, will let others decide!
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
indulgent v discerning


Explanation:
I always think of a gourmet as someone with discerning taste - and I got the idea of indulgent on reading katsy's prose.

Emma Paulay
France
Local time: 21:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 75
Grading comment
agree with Richard about 'self indulgent' but this approach is perhaps the best. Let's keep at it ! how to distinguish between loving food & loving only 'good' food

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  katsy: Et voilà! We're getting there! (well, IMO)
1 hr
  -> Thank you!

agree  Sheila Wilson: Wish I'd thought of that!
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Sheila. I wouldn't have done if I hadn't seen the other suggestions first!

agree  kironne
3 hrs
  -> Thanks kironne

neutral  Richard Benham: When people use "indulgent" in this way, it sounds to me like an error for "self-indulgent"....
1 day9 hrs
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22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
quantity-focused / quality-focused


Explanation:
Perhaps the marketing/advertising types themselves with their huge expense budgets and long lunch hours have a good grasp of the two original text French words. But not their colleagues who are more office-bound. To a non-French speaker (other than 'anglicised' French words), the two words look alike and confusion would be a distinct possibility.

I thus suggest the above, although of course, there are a variety of options...quantity-centered, quantity oriented...


Marc Glinert
Local time: 21:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  katsy: At least unambiguous, (pb of my own proposal); only remark: 'pleasure' has disappeared here.Given pbs of formulation, wdn't presume to be too critical! :-)//Hey! how about 'pleasure-oriented'?/// No, a very demure 'quality-oriented'!!
17 mins
  -> thanks katsy, but vs. what? get-stuffed-to-the-gills oriented?!
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
lover of fine food vs expert chef


Explanation:
Gourmands eat what gourmets produce.

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Note added at 4 days (2007-04-05 18:38:00 GMT)
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Oxford dictionary of English suggests the meanings overlap, both are lovers of fine food but gourmands can be greedy and eat too much.

Ben Gaia MA
New Zealand
Local time: 07:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Sheila Wilson: you can be a gourmet without being able to boil the proverbial egg
1 hr

disagree  Marc Glinert: Don't think so, Ben
13 hrs
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