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estimation moyenne

English translation: mean, estimation of the mean, estimated mean

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:estimation moyenne
English translation:mean, estimation of the mean, estimated mean
Entered by: Dana Pottratz

09:14 May 2, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Mathematics & Statistics / Whale population counting
French term or phrase: estimation moyenne
I'm confused as to whether this should be the mean or the average estimate. And is there a difference between estimate and estimation?

Context:
"L’incertitude autour de l’estimation d’abondance est aussi un point essentiel d’information, car c’est souvent la borne inférieure de l’intervalle de confiance autour de l’estimation moyenne qui, par mesure de précaution, sera retenue en matière de gestion."

Thanks in advance.

Dana
Dana Pottratz
France
Local time: 11:54
estimation of the mean
Explanation:
Estimate and estimation are subtly different, but not so that a layman would notice! "mean" tends to be used by statisticians more than "average". "average estimate" doesn't really mean much!

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Note added at 8 mins (2008-05-02 09:22:47 GMT)
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The mean, especially in whale populations, is always a sample estimate, since the entire population of all whales is virtually impossible to measure.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-05-02 13:55:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS, NewCal, the mean is NOT (in general) halfway between the extreme values - that's the median. Only for symmetric distributions, such as the normal (ie Gaussian) are the mean and median the same. Similarly, the mode is not generally half-way, but only in symmetric distributions. The modal income in the UK is about 15k (ie most frequent) but the average (ie mean) is over 25k on account of city slickers shifting the C of G to the right.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2008-05-02 16:47:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dana, to avoid confusion (!) over estimation or estimated, it may be best just to avoid this word since, by definition, the sample mean of a whale population is an estimate, and therefore understood. The idea here is that it is best to use the lower bound of the confidence interval (somewhere there will be a "level of significance", eg 1%) to get a conservative estimate of (presumably) whale numbers, as opposed to an optimistic estimated based on the upper confidence bound.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-05-03 10:55:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

For anyone who hasn't slashed his or her wrists yet, the reference below is a good description of sampling from a population, including a definition of confidence limits: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-distribution. Let's hope this discussion is finally put to bed!
On reflection, "estimated mean" in the context is better than "estimation of the mean".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-05-03 10:57:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-distribution
Selected response from:

chris collister
France
Local time: 11:54
Grading comment
Thanks a lot. I'm amazed at the huge discussion my little question sparked off!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4average evaluation
RealBlunt
4 -1estimate of the mean, estimated mean
rkillings
3average estimate/estimation/approximation
MatthewLaSon
4 -2estimation of the mean
chris collister


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
average evaluation


Explanation:
I think this is the accurate translation.

Example of use of this expression can be seen at:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/10498/...

RealBlunt
Portugal
Local time: 10:54
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ghyslaine LE NAGARD: Yes absolutely
40 mins
disagree  chris collister: sorry, but no. The mean has been estimated from a sample, and its reliability bracketed by the confidence interval, which reflects the standard error of the mean.
3 hrs
  -> ...is this a lesson on maths or a translation?
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
estimate of the mean, estimated mean


Explanation:
NOT 'estimation' here.

The sentence is talking about a confidence interval about a *parameter*, which is a number.

I've never heard a native-English-speaking statistician refer to a number as an estimation rather than an estimate. Estimation is the process used to obtain an estimate -- or one's opinion about someone or something.<g>


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-05-02 10:33:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The only real difference between 'mean' and 'average' is that one word sounds more mathematical than the other. Even with 'mean', you still have to specify whether it is arithmetic, geometric, harmonic, or whatever.
'Average' belongs to general vocabulary. What people think is 'average' may often be the mode or the median rather than the mean.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2008-05-02 17:50:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

What is the problem? 201,000 Google hits on "estimated mean", starting with this one:
http://www.physics.utah.edu/~detar/phys6720/handouts/statist...

You can say "mean estimate" if you like ('mean' being an adjective as well).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-05-02 20:33:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And this: "Best linear unbiased estimates depend on estimating the mean function. Consistency is concerned with the estimated mean converging to the true mean so that ..."

rkillings
United States
Local time: 02:54
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 28
Notes to answerer
Asker: Note to NewCal: yet they get 52,200 and 493,000 Google hits respectively!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  BusterK: agree with estimate but same comment on mean. The mean is exactly what is is, also the figures included in this average are themselves estimates...
22 mins
  -> Not quite. The sample mean is an estimate of the (unobservable) population mean.
disagree  Ghyslaine LE NAGARD: Same as for Chris... never seen this wording
1 hr
agree  writeaway
1 hr
disagree  RealBlunt: ... never seen this wording, either
7 hrs
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
average estimate/estimation/approximation


Explanation:
Hello,

They're talking about an average estimate given regarding the whale population. No one knows for sure what it is. So, a confidance scale range is devised in reference to the final estimated average. In this case, they usually go by the lowest value on the confidance scale range for determining how to manage the whale population.

Example: Suppose that the whale population average is estimated at 8000, and 50 researchers are asked on a scale of 1-10 how confidant they are regarding this estimate. Now after having gathered the opinions of all the researchers, suppose the final confidance scale ranges from 5-8. As * 5 * is now the lowest value on this range, it will end up being used in the formula for determining how to manage the whale population.

I don't see much of a difference between "estimation" and "estimate." I think they are synonyms, aren't they? I prefer "estimate", though.

I hope this helps.

MatthewLaSon
Local time: 05:54
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
estimation of the mean


Explanation:
Estimate and estimation are subtly different, but not so that a layman would notice! "mean" tends to be used by statisticians more than "average". "average estimate" doesn't really mean much!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2008-05-02 09:22:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The mean, especially in whale populations, is always a sample estimate, since the entire population of all whales is virtually impossible to measure.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-05-02 13:55:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS, NewCal, the mean is NOT (in general) halfway between the extreme values - that's the median. Only for symmetric distributions, such as the normal (ie Gaussian) are the mean and median the same. Similarly, the mode is not generally half-way, but only in symmetric distributions. The modal income in the UK is about 15k (ie most frequent) but the average (ie mean) is over 25k on account of city slickers shifting the C of G to the right.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2008-05-02 16:47:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dana, to avoid confusion (!) over estimation or estimated, it may be best just to avoid this word since, by definition, the sample mean of a whale population is an estimate, and therefore understood. The idea here is that it is best to use the lower bound of the confidence interval (somewhere there will be a "level of significance", eg 1%) to get a conservative estimate of (presumably) whale numbers, as opposed to an optimistic estimated based on the upper confidence bound.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-05-03 10:55:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

For anyone who hasn't slashed his or her wrists yet, the reference below is a good description of sampling from a population, including a definition of confidence limits: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-distribution. Let's hope this discussion is finally put to bed!
On reflection, "estimated mean" in the context is better than "estimation of the mean".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-05-03 10:57:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-distribution

chris collister
France
Local time: 11:54
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 71
Grading comment
Thanks a lot. I'm amazed at the huge discussion my little question sparked off!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Note to NewCal : And yet it gets 65,200 Google hits!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  BusterK: not sure estimation of the mean is correct. I understand mean (or average, see above) of the estimates...
4 mins
  -> The mean is exact if you can measure the entire population, but the smaller the sample size, the wider the confidence limits: eg the length of one whale won't give much confidence that this reflects the whole population.
disagree  Ghyslaine LE NAGARD: never seen this wording in both scientific and general public documents
1 hr
  -> it's quite simple really: estimation of the mean is just the PROCESS of finding an estimate of the mean. What's the problem? "Estimating means" is a v. common phrase, hence the process... etc.
disagree  RealBlunt: I have the same position as NewCal
8 hrs
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