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cancer bronchique primitif non à petites cellules métastique

English translation: metastatic (primary) non-small-cell lung cancer\"

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:cancer bronchique primitif non à petites cellules métastique
English translation:metastatic (primary) non-small-cell lung cancer\"
Entered by: Jill Ananyi
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00:57 Sep 6, 2011
French to English translations [PRO]
Medical - Medical (general) / Cancer
French term or phrase: cancer bronchique primitif non à petites cellules métastique
I am having a dispute with a colleague about the meaning/importance of 'primitif' in this phrase. Our sentence (from a French thoracic oncologist) is the following:

"Nous avons revue en consultation Monsieur X, suivi pour un cancer bronchique primitif non à petites cellules métastatique."
how to combine them. At present, one version is "bronchial carcinoma (metastatic non-small-cell lung cancer)", and the other is "metastatic primary non-small-cell lung cancer" or perhaps "primary metastatic non-small-ce lung cancer".

I believe that the word 'primitif' here translates as 'primary' and that its inclusion is necessary to the meaning, but I don't usually find it combined with 'métastatique' in the same noun phrase. Nothing in the literature that we have read lumps them together.

I would appreciate your help in choosing the best phrasing, either one of these options or possibly a better one.

Merci
Jill Ananyi
United States
Local time: 07:18
metastatic (primary) non-small-cell lung cancer"
Explanation:
Your interpretation of primitif to mean primary is correct.
http://www.medithermclinic.com/Breast/methods for detecting....

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/medical/7340-can...

I agree with you that the wording is unconventional. Normally, one would use the term 'primary' to distinguish a tumor arising from a particular tissue from a tumor found in the same tissue/area but arising from a different type of tissue, that is, a metastasis.

In the source text, I believe the intent is to describe a primary non-small-cell lung cancer that has already metastasized to a different, unspecified, site. I think the wording would be clearer if the term primary were deleted entirely.

However, in the event that you decide to include the term primary, then the order is metastatic primary non-small-cell lung cancer. The converse is self contradictory.

Selected response from:

Michael Barnett
Local time: 07:18
Grading comment
Thank you, Michael and other experts. You have made our lives much easier and contributed the the pool of knowledge.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5metastatic (primary) non-small-cell lung cancer"
Michael Barnett
4bronchial metastatic non-small-cell lung carcinomaEtchart
Summary of reference entries provided
les cancers bronchopulmonaires primitifs peuvent entraîner des métastases extrathoraciques
andres-larsen

  

Answers


50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
metastatic (primary) non-small-cell lung cancer"


Explanation:
Your interpretation of primitif to mean primary is correct.
http://www.medithermclinic.com/Breast/methods for detecting....

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/medical/7340-can...

I agree with you that the wording is unconventional. Normally, one would use the term 'primary' to distinguish a tumor arising from a particular tissue from a tumor found in the same tissue/area but arising from a different type of tissue, that is, a metastasis.

In the source text, I believe the intent is to describe a primary non-small-cell lung cancer that has already metastasized to a different, unspecified, site. I think the wording would be clearer if the term primary were deleted entirely.

However, in the event that you decide to include the term primary, then the order is metastatic primary non-small-cell lung cancer. The converse is self contradictory.



Michael Barnett
Local time: 07:18
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 611
Grading comment
Thank you, Michael and other experts. You have made our lives much easier and contributed the the pool of knowledge.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  MatthewLaSon
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Matt! :-)

agree  Drmanu49
4 hrs
  -> Thank you Manu! :-)

agree  SJLD: yes, I'd leave out the primary
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Sue! :-)

agree  marie-christine périé
6 hrs
  -> Thanks Marie-Christine! :-)

agree  liz askew: oooh aaarrhh:)
7 hrs
  -> Thanks Liz! :-)
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
bronchial metastatic non-small-cell lung carcinoma


Explanation:
Metastatic cancer has the same name and the same type of cancer cells as the original, or primary, cancer. For example, breast cancer that spreads to the lungs and forms a metastatic tumor is metastatic breast cancer. In my opinion, in this case the word “primary” could have been left out, but if you need to be literal, perhaps “bronchial metastatic (of primary) non-small-cell lung carcinoma”, with or without parenthesis could fit. Give an eye to this link below.


    Reference: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Sites-Types/met...
Etchart
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Your opinion is appreciated. So you think it would best to put both 'bronchial' and 'lung'?

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Reference comments


52 mins
Reference: les cancers bronchopulmonaires primitifs peuvent entraîner des métastases extrathoraciques

Reference information:
bronchopulmonaire - Encyclopédie Larousse -
www.larousse.fr/encyclopedie/medical/bronchopulmonaire/1167...
cancer Cancer développé aux dépens des tissus des bronches et des poumons. ... En double cliquant sur chacun des mots, vous accéderez aux définitions Larousse ... Les cancers dits « non à petites cellules » constituent 90 % des cancers ... ***les cancers bronchopulmonaires primitifs peuvent entraîner des métastases extrathoraciques, dont les plus fréquentes sont osseuses, hépatiques et cérébrales***...


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Note added at 58 mins (2011-09-06 01:55:35 GMT)
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Secondary Lung Tumors
emedicine.medscape.com/article/426820-overview
7 Jan 2010 – ***Primary lung cancers themselves most commonly metastasize to the adrenal glands, liver, brain, and bone***. Secondary ... Lung metastases can commonly cause no symptoms, or they can be the major cause of morbidity. ..... CT evaluation for pulmonary metastases in patients with extrathoracic malignancy. ...


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Note added at 1 hr (2011-09-06 02:02:03 GMT)
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Noninvasive Staging of Non-small Cell Lung Cancer*
chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/123/1_suppl/137S.full
EM Toloza - 2003 -
For the evaluation of brain metastases, the summary estimate of the negative ... ***As the most common sites of lung cancer metastases are the brain, bones, liver, and ... of mediastinal nodes or extrathoracic sites in addition to the primary tumor***;

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-09-06 02:12:19 GMT)
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It would be best to ask a practising oncologist, one way perhaps to pinpoint the difference better would be to compare the stages which characterize your French source context ("Stade" followed by its Roman numeral) and its two equivalent renderings into English ("Stage" followed in turn by its Roman numeral) as discussed with your colleague:

Vascular phenotypes in primary non-small cell lung ... - Nature.com
www.nature.com › Journal home › Archive › Molecular Diagnostics
AM Jubb - 2011
3 May 2011 – ***Vascular phenotypes in primary non-small cell lung carcinomas and matched brain metastases***. A M Jubb1, A Cesario2,3, M Ferguson1, M T ...


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Note added at 11 hrs (2011-09-06 12:29:14 GMT)
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Simplifying things: The question crops up whether primary lung cancer can be classified as Stage IV lung cancer or whether it fits somewhere into Stages 0 to III

andres-larsen
Venezuela
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thanks for your input. This is exactly the type of literature I've been reading in both languages, but I don't know if it's necessary to fit "primary" into the phrase or not. As you might have seen on these web sites, 'metastasis' and 'primary' are usually in separate parts of a clause, not lumped together.

Asker: Thanks again. We are at stage IV, and in these reports the doctors always say 'classé IV' instead of 'stade'. It has metastasized to a number of places already. I'll wait for some other experts to weigh in. I'm almost kicking myself for not trying to get hold of a friend's medical records from her lung cancer, but it would have been a bit too intrusive.

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