ProZ.com global directory of translation services
 The translation workplace
Ideas
KudoZ home » French to English » Music

allure franquiste

English translation: in the style of Cesar Franck


Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:allure franquiste
English translation:in the style of Cesar Franck
Entered by: David Vaughn
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

13:58 Jul 20, 2010
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Music / musique concrète
French term or phrase: allure franquiste
Contemporary programme notes by Pierre Schaeffer from 1952:

« La Sphoradie fut d’abord jugée irrecevable par ses premiers auditeurs, et défendue par l’auteur seul. Il faut bien dire que tout y choquait. Après une “exposition” de sillons fermés taillés en pleine masse orchestrale, sorte d’arrachés violents, on tombait tout à coup dans un quatuor à cordes, d’allure franquiste, qui insensiblement virait à l’envers, puis revenait à son romantisme de bon aloi. »

I'm not sure if we are talking military music here, Schaeffer does sometimes use images that are more specific than the point he's making. I'm also wondering if "allure" here is limited to the tempo of the music, or if the Franco Falangist thingy plays a part, and if so what part.
David Vaughn
Local time: 08:01
in the style of Cesar Franck
Explanation:
I think it's better to spell out the name of the composer in full, rather than try to coin an adjective for him. English tends not to use adjectives based on names except in rare cases- churchillian etc, for very well-known people.
Selected response from:

Karen Vincent-Jones
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:01
Grading comment
Research on this Schaeffer piece makes it clear he was specifically referring to César Franck. This adjective IS used in French to refer to him. I concluded that "allure" was not used in the Schaefferrian meaning, since allure does have a ordinary musical meaning, and the text predated Schaeffer's classification work. Thanks for all the input.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2(César) Franckist allure
kashew
4 +1in the style of Cesar Franck
Karen Vincent-Jones
4Franco-like (string quartet)Ellebore
Summary of reference entries provided
typo for franckiste?
Rachel Fell

Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Franco-like (string quartet)


Explanation:
I'd say the music is extremely violent at first, then moves on to something extremely tight and square and controlled, and then goes back to the violent Romantic mode.

Ellebore
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
in the style of Cesar Franck


Explanation:
I think it's better to spell out the name of the composer in full, rather than try to coin an adjective for him. English tends not to use adjectives based on names except in rare cases- churchillian etc, for very well-known people.

Example sentence(s):
  • ((in the Style of Pugnani) - for Violin and Piano). By Fritz Kreisler (1875-1962). For Violin Solo, Piano. Solo part with piano reduction. Standard notation. 5 pages. Published by Carl Fischer (CF.F1064).

    Reference: http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Tempo-di-Minuetto-In-the...
Karen Vincent-Jones
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Research on this Schaeffer piece makes it clear he was specifically referring to César Franck. This adjective IS used in French to refer to him. I concluded that "allure" was not used in the Schaefferrian meaning, since allure does have a ordinary musical meaning, and the text predated Schaeffer's classification work. Thanks for all the input.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Philippa
4 mins
  -> Thank you, Philippa

agree  philgoddard: César.
20 mins
  -> Thank you, Phil. (I'm using a computer that doesn't seem to do accents!)

disagree  xxxSMcG: surely it means the Franckist school of neo classical music not the composer himself, also if Pierre Schaeffer wrote the notes himself, I do not think he would use the phrase "in the style of Cesar Franck", he is talking about the Franckist school.
1 hr
  -> \i think 'in the style of' covers this wider meaning- it doesn't necessarily mean that the composer himself wrote it.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
(César) Franckist allure


Explanation:
*

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 minutes (2010-07-20 14:21:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"allure" as in previous question.
Style: Many of Franck's works employ "cyclic form", a method of achieving unity among several movements in which all of the principal themes of the work are generated from a germinal motif. - Wiki

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 heures (2010-07-20 16:58:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Schaeffer might even mean "elegance".
Listening to Sphoradie would clear up a lot of the fog here.

kashew
France
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: "allure" is a false friend here - it just means "style".
2 hrs
  -> I was trying to link up with yesterday's question on "allure". Schaeffer might even mean "elegance".

agree  xxxSMcG
3 hrs
  -> Thanks

neutral  Karen Vincent-Jones: Agree with Phil that 'allure' is a rather too literal translation
3 hrs

agree  Rachel Fell: Franckist feel/tone - or maybe allure? http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/essay-why-ha...
4 hrs
  -> Thanks
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


5 hrs
Reference: typo for franckiste?

Reference information:
http://universfranckiste.free.fr/index.php

Ernest Chausson, compositeur français (1855-1899). Il commence par des études de droit et n'entre au Conservatoire de Paris qu'à l'âge de 25 ans (classe de Massenet). La rigidité de l'enseignement officiel n'est pas compatible avec son caractère. Il entre dans la classe de C. Franck (orgue). Il quitte le conservatoire et travaille à titre privé avec Frank. Il montre une grande indépendance dans ses opinions esthétiques. Il manifeste un grand libéralisme à l'égard des autres. De 1888 à sa mort il est secrétaire général de la Société nationale de Musique et il fait connaître des compositeurs de son temps, notamment Debussy. Il est mort d'un accident de vélo (fracture du crâne). Son oeuvre est caractéristique de l'école franckiste avec cependant des influences wagnériennes. Sa musique annonce l'impressionnisme.

Mais l'audition du Chant de la Cloche de Vincent d'Indy, en 1886, le décidait à quitter ses premiers maîtres pour demander des conseils et des leçons à ce César Franck qui avait su former un si grand musicien.

Il appartient donc à ce groupe des franckistes qui comprenait Castillon, Duparc, d'Indy, Chausson, Lekeu, Pierre de Bréville, Charles Bordes, Louis de Serres.

http://www.musicologie.org/Biographies/r/ropartz.html

Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also: