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quelque détermination plus profonde; encore faudrait il conserver celle-là,

English translation: celle-là = the deeper form of determination

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10:35 Feb 10, 2009
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Philosophy / 20th C. French philosophy text
French term or phrase: quelque détermination plus profonde; encore faudrait il conserver celle-là,
Full context of whole sentence is needed to help me determine what 'celle-la' means here: Au milieu des successions variables, il s'en trouverait d'uniformes, il y aurait, des couples d'antécédents et conséquents qui reaparaîtraient toujours les mêmes: ce serait assez pour mettre d'ordre dans les phénomènes, ou du moins quand on réclamerait comme complément quelque détermination plus profonde; encore faudrait il conserver celle-là, pour rendre compte d'un des actes capitaux de la nature, l'act de prévoir.

My first effort: This would suffice to bring some order to the phenomena—or at least, when some more profound determination is required as a complement, this version of events/the former [celle-la]?? is one that allows us to the most important activity of natural sciences to be accounted for, namely, the ability to predict events.

Many thanks! I will be posting more of these, over time.
S.J.
France
Local time: 03:40
English translation:celle-là = the deeper form of determination
Explanation:
The passage is awkwardly written (and the tense doesn't help), but I read this "celle-la" as referring to "the deeper form of determination" (determination in the philosophical sense: something that brings something about). This is my stab at the passage which might not be elegant but hopefully makes my reading clear:

"Among various sequences, there would be some that are repeated, there would be pairs of antecedents and consequents [may be better words, even specific terminology, for these] which would always appear in the same way: this would be enough to bring order to phenomena, at least [it would] when some deeper form of determination was invoked to complement it; it would still be necessary to keep this extra element to account for one of the most significant acts in nature, the act of foresight (or prediction)."

This is perhaps about Hume and empiricism? Or Kant? It's about the problem of trying to account for our ability to make predictive and universal statements from an empiricist or naturalist perspective, when our experience is partial: we never *see* a law. Usually the naturalist/empiricist starts from the occurence of patterns, repeated sequences, from whih we extrapolate relations of cause and effect, but we are not actually justified in asserting this relationship, we need to evoke some *other* factor that guarantees the relationship between our perception and our judgements, eg. a natural order, preestablished harmony, God, the transcendental synthesis etc.

Does the further context justify you saying "the most important activity of natural sciences" rather than "the most important act of nature". Because the problem is how *nature* can give rise to such a judgement, ie how nature can produce "natural science".
Selected response from:

Melissa McMahon
Australia
Local time: 11:40
Grading comment
Dear Melissa, many thanks!
Am impressed at how you inferred all that correctly from the scant context. Great help, thanks. I forgot indeed to write 'des sciences de la nature'; sorry. I would be grateful for future input on forthcoming questions. Since you both answered at the same time, roughly, I think the points must go to you.

Sharon
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1celle-là = the deeper form of determination
Melissa McMahon
3 +1celle là-->la détermination
Christophe G.


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
celle-là = the deeper form of determination


Explanation:
The passage is awkwardly written (and the tense doesn't help), but I read this "celle-la" as referring to "the deeper form of determination" (determination in the philosophical sense: something that brings something about). This is my stab at the passage which might not be elegant but hopefully makes my reading clear:

"Among various sequences, there would be some that are repeated, there would be pairs of antecedents and consequents [may be better words, even specific terminology, for these] which would always appear in the same way: this would be enough to bring order to phenomena, at least [it would] when some deeper form of determination was invoked to complement it; it would still be necessary to keep this extra element to account for one of the most significant acts in nature, the act of foresight (or prediction)."

This is perhaps about Hume and empiricism? Or Kant? It's about the problem of trying to account for our ability to make predictive and universal statements from an empiricist or naturalist perspective, when our experience is partial: we never *see* a law. Usually the naturalist/empiricist starts from the occurence of patterns, repeated sequences, from whih we extrapolate relations of cause and effect, but we are not actually justified in asserting this relationship, we need to evoke some *other* factor that guarantees the relationship between our perception and our judgements, eg. a natural order, preestablished harmony, God, the transcendental synthesis etc.

Does the further context justify you saying "the most important activity of natural sciences" rather than "the most important act of nature". Because the problem is how *nature* can give rise to such a judgement, ie how nature can produce "natural science".


Melissa McMahon
Australia
Local time: 11:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 66
Grading comment
Dear Melissa, many thanks!
Am impressed at how you inferred all that correctly from the scant context. Great help, thanks. I forgot indeed to write 'des sciences de la nature'; sorry. I would be grateful for future input on forthcoming questions. Since you both answered at the same time, roughly, I think the points must go to you.

Sharon

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Susan Nicholls: You're essentiall agreeing with the response above, but I think this is a full and useful analysis
38 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
celle-là
celle là-->la détermination


Explanation:
it is the "détermination plus profonde" that one has to keep in mind in order to "rendre compte d'un des actes capitaux de la nature, l'act de prévoir."

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Note added at 6 hrs (2009-02-10 17:19:30 GMT) Post-grading
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Don't worry, I can't seriously argue on this one. You picked the right answer. Good luck with the book, it looks entertaining :-) I'll try to answer again.

Christophe G.
Ireland
Local time: 02:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: French
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hello Chris. You both sent great answers...thank you so much. I will have to pick the second one because she wrote so much on the passage, all of it helpful and correct. But please know that I will post many more of these--its a whole book-- and I have made a note to give you priority if you answer one of my questions again, long or short. Thanks again.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Susan Nicholls
44 mins
  -> Thanks Susan!
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