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un amour de femme

English translation: she is a darling of a woman

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15:41 Aug 25, 2008
French to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
French term or phrase: un amour de femme
this was the subject line of an email. Does it mean: "love for a woman" or "a love of women" or "the love of a woman"?
Susie
English translation:she is a darling of a woman
Explanation:

do not expect ideal solutions as long as you are witholding context. My suggestion thus can only be guess work.
Selected response from:

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 03:48
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +7she is a darling of a womanEllen Kraus
4 +1a woman's love1045
3 +1Love from a woman/A woman's loveMatthewLaSon
4a lovely woman
Katarina Peters
3a woman loved by everyone.
axies
Summary of reference entries provided
Edward LAMB
tralamode

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
a lovely woman


Explanation:
it could either mean the above or:
"a woman's love"

Katarina Peters
Canada
Local time: 21:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 14

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Edward LAMB: This nice little idiomatic expression should not be translated literally as in your alternative suggestion... As for literary context, please see the celebrated French author, Alphonse Daudet's quote : "Un amour de petite chèvre... "
13 hrs
  -> I agree, but it really depends on the context, doesn't it?// Since when is an e-mail necessarily of literary context?

agree  tralamode: I agree with you Katarina. There is a likely possibility this is the meaning.
1 day1 hr
  -> Thank you Matthew, that's why my initial instinct made me think about both meanings, as there is no context...
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +7
she is a darling of a woman


Explanation:

do not expect ideal solutions as long as you are witholding context. My suggestion thus can only be guess work.

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 03:48
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  maggiemw: My reaction is the same as yours - "a darling of a..." French uses this expression frequently - 'un amour de chemise' is a darling blouse (in the salesperson's opinion).
10 mins
  -> merci !

agree  Jean-Louis S.
35 mins
  -> thank you !

agree  Emma Paulay: Definitely the sense - without the "she is" which isn't in the Fr.
1 hr
  -> thank you !

agree  TesCor -: Yup for sure
1 hr
  -> thank you !

agree  lundy: or quite simply "she is a darling"
2 hrs
  -> thank you !

agree  Edward LAMB: Yours is certainly the closest to the intended meaning, as I see it...
13 hrs
  -> thank you !

agree  Nadia Ayoub
18 hrs
  -> thank you !
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Love from a woman/A woman's love


Explanation:
Hello,

"Un amour de femme", c'est un amour provenant d'une femme

It often has a sexual connotation.

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Note added at 35 mins (2008-08-25 16:16:11 GMT)
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Also, it can a term of endearment: "a darling of a woman", which is probably the case here.

un amour de bébé = a darling little baby
un amour de pantalon = cute pair of pants


MatthewLaSon
Local time: 21:48
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Edward LAMB: While I quite agree with the two given terms of endearment, I, personally, have never felt any sexual connotation in this usual idiomatic expression...
13 hrs
  -> Thanks! I meant to say in lesbian poetry or a man in need of a woman's romantic love. LOL. No, it doesn't in general have a sexual connotation to it. I wasn't being very clear.
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
a woman's love


Explanation:
*

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2008-08-25 15:58:28 GMT)
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It could also mean "a lovely woman" or "a darling of a woman" ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-25 20:10:01 GMT)
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Emma: Un amour de femme ... pour son enfant, un amour de femme ... la façon qu'une femme aime, etc.
Matthew: Do you have other examples/instances which I could use to convey to Emma the "dual" meaning without additional context?

1045
Canada
Local time: 21:48
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  MatthewLaSon: If it's not being used a term of endearment, it clearly means "womanly love." No, the French is not literally saying "l'amour d'une femme", but "l'amour de femme", which means "womanly love". That clearly implies love from a woman.
23 mins
  -> Merci Matthew pour ton analyse ...

neutral  Emma Paulay: "A woman's love" would be "l'amour d'une femme".//I did think about it before I commented. To me, it can only mean 'a darling of a woman'.
1 hr
  -> I agree with you, Emma; "a woman's love" is "l'amour d'une femme" ... BUT "un amour de femme" could also mean "a woman's love" OR "a darling of a woman" ... Think about it ...

disagree  Edward LAMB: Emma's is the only appropriate response. You might even say 'adorable' as : "Un amour de petite chèvre...", Alphonse Daudet, La Petite Chèvre de Monsieur Seguin. Which means that Blanquette was an 'adorable' little goat...but not that she loved M. Seguin!
14 hrs
  -> You agree with Emma's neutrality with a "disagree"? Welcome to ProZ.com ...

agree  tralamode
1 day1 hr
  -> Thanks a lot, Matthew, for your vote of confidence ...
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
a woman loved by everyone.


Explanation:
This just adds to the others.

axies
Australia
Local time: 11:18
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Edward LAMB: This interpretation seems to be drifting away from the idiom...
5 hrs
  -> Maybe, maybe not. we dont have the email to consult!
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Reference comments


1 day16 mins
Reference

Reference information:
"Ah ! Gringoire, qu'elle était,jolie la petite chèvre de M. Séguin ! qu'elle était,jolie avec ses yeux doux, sa barbiche de sous-officier, ses sabots noirs et luisants, ses cornes zébrées et ses longs poils blancs qui lui faisaient une houppelande ! C'était presque aussi charmant que le cabri d'Esméralda, tu te rappelles, Gringoire ? - et puis, docile, caressante, se laissant traire sans bouger, sans mettre son pied dans l'écuelle. Un amour de petite chèvre... "

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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2008-08-26 22:06:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Little does it matter, linguistically speaking, that the object, here, be a female... goat. Whatever the object may be,
in proper modern French usage, "un amour de..." (immediately followed by a noun, no matter the gender, means something 'charming', shall we say... Now, there might be some semantic controversy concerning regional vernacular (admittedly Alphonse Daudet was influenced by the "patois Provençal", although not a native of the South of France...; as for Charles Augustin Sainte-Beuve, despite his renoun as a literary critic...). He, obviously used those words, not as a popular expression, but, in order to create the juxtaopposition : "d'un amour de femme, mais d'une amitié d'homme." Nota bene : the preposition "de", in this case " d' ", alters the meaning as defined by the Dictionnaire Larousse. It is not found in our example, thus, not pertinent...
One could, of course, go on and on in a debate which quickly becomes vain...

Example sentence(s):
  • "Un amour de petite chèvre... "
  • In this contexte, Blanquette was an 'adorable' little goat...it does not signify that she loved M. Seguin!

    Reference: http://www.alalettre.com/daudet-seguin.htm
Edward LAMB
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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1 hr
Reference

Reference information:
I would say it depends on the context as it can mean both "a woman's love/womanly love" and "a lovely woman." There was a French movie called "Un amour de femme", and the U.S. title was "A woman's love." But again, depends on the context.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2008-08-26 17:53:39 GMT)
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To provide some literary references for two meanings this phrase can clearly have:

Portraits contemporains p.73
By Charles Augustin Sainte-Beuve
"Cette espèce de crime se renouvelle encore deux autres fois, et dans l'une des deux à propos non plus d'un amour de femme, mais d'une amitié d'homme."
http://books.google.com/books?id=szEJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA73&dq="un...


La Comédie Humaine (Balzac, P. Citron) p. 131
"Eh! bien, tu es un amour de femme, ma Renée"
http://books.google.com/books?id=wbZcAAAAMAAJ&q="un amour de...



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Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2008-08-27 12:39:09 GMT)
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Études de la nature
By Bernardin de Saint-Pierre, (1836)
On Jeanne d'Arc: "Entrainée par un amour de femme et en même temps de héros, elle couvre sa tête du casque dont le panache avait montré à l'armée française découragée le chemin de la victoire;" (p.122)
http://books.google.com/books?id=ow8-AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA122&dq="u...

Mémoires couronnés et autres mémoires ...
Académie royale des sciences, des lettres et des beaux-arts de Belgique
1862
"Mais qu'un homme ait pu, sans encourir le moindre blâme de la part de ses supérieurs, exercer des fonctions sacrées, porter l'habit du prêtre et nourrir dans son cœur un amour de femme, si pur et idéal que fût cet amour, c'est une étrangeté morale qui caractérise une époque. Pétrarque avait trois grandes passions: l'amour de Laure, l'amour de l'étude et l'amour de la patrie italienne." (p. 219)
http://books.google.com/books?id=LN0zAAAAMAAJ&dq="un amour d...

Or, in Alexandre Dumas's translation of Hamlet,

"OPHÉLIE C'est bien court monseigneur
HAMLET Comme un amour de femme"

http://books.google.com/books?id=aoctAAAAMAAJ&dq="un amour d...
Théâtre complet de Alex. Dumas By Alexandre Dumas


    Reference: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386092/
tralamode
United States
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
disagree  Edward LAMB: French language literary reference : http://www.alalettre.com/daudet-seguin.htm. My bet is that the film title in French was a play on the words, a kind of pun which, of course, the U.S. title could not translate... Also see the Dictionnaire Larousse...
22 hrs
  -> Ok legolingo, I see your goat reference, but since this is a subject line of an email without any other context, it's important to take into consideration all possible meanings.
agree  Emma Paulay: Hmm.You're beginning to convince me. However, I think this way of saying 'l'amour des femmes/l'amour au féminin/l'amour d'une femme is only used when a play on words is intended. Which doesn't get us any further as we've no idea :-)
1 day3 hrs
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Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO
PRO (2): Edward LAMB, Emma Paulay


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