English translation: the others as a surtout over their beautiful town dress
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13:03 Jul 19, 2011
French to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Catholic orders
French term or phrase:les autres en surtout de leur belle robe de ville
Ils ont revetu la cape aux deux tons de bleue, les uns par-dessus leur veste blanche facon smoking...
Can we use "en surtout" in modern day English is it to rare and limited to heraldry?
Explanation: Je me permets de proposer un méli-mélo de toutes les réponses.
Since "surtout" is mostly 19th century in both French and English, i.e. dated, I would keep it.
It is used both for military overcoat and for clergy as in "Costume of Prelates of the Catholic Church" written by Fr. John A. Nainfa, SS, published in 1909:
"... The dress of the train-bearer varies according to the different occasions on which he performs his duties. ...over the cassock, he puts the crocia, a surtout of peculiar shape, made of purple cloth or serge, lined and trimmed with purple silk..."
Pour robe de ville, je ne sais pas, quelque chose avec clerical ?
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 22 hrs (2011-07-20 11:27:36 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Je voulais déjà donner cette réponse hier, mais n'en avais rien fait, car il me semblait que vous vouliez utiliser "en surtout" en anglais
I agree with CC. It should be 'en surtout de' actually, because 'en surtout' can simply mean 'in a surtout, wearing a surtout', which is not the case at all. The author possibly meant 'as if it was a surtout over...'
Also, is it really 'bleue'? Because it should be 'bleu' (noun). Other than that, the sentence is rather elegant.
If your question is about "en surtout," then that's all that should posted as the "French term or phrase." The rest of the phrase – "les autres en surtout de leur belle robe de ville" – should be posted in the "Explanation" along with a description of the context. Otherwise, the ensuing glossary entries get muddled less useful. ;-)
Very rare and interesting expression (not to use in modern French, please, hehe). I guess the text is at least a century old. Both 'par-dessus' and 'en surtout de' mean 'over, on top of', so it would be important to translate them in a different way too.
Interesting bit of language here, thank you.
"par-dessus" used in the first part has now become "un pardessus" and correlates nicely with the way "surtout" is used here.
If I (retired English teacher) had come across this expression I'd have had to look it up. It appears to be used rarely in ,"in surtout", to mean in a military overcoat, as well as in heraldry. I would tentatively suggest that the 2 shades of blue were in the ladies' overcoats.
en sur·tout
adv or adj ¦än(ˌ)sər¦tü, än ˈsərˌtü
Definition of EN SURTOUT
: in a centered position on another as if laid on top of it —used of one coat of arms in respect to another, esp. of that of a wife in respect to that of her husband http://mw2.m-w.com/dictionary/en surtout?show=0&t=1311081263
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Answers
3 hrs confidence:
and others as an overcoat for their beautiful......
Explanation: surtout [ˈsɜːtuː (French) syrtu]
n
(Clothing & Fashion) a man's overcoat resembling a frock coat, popular in the late 19th century
[from French, from sur over + tout all]
Verginia Ophof Belize Local time: 07:16 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
the others as a surtout over their beautiful town dress
Explanation: Je me permets de proposer un méli-mélo de toutes les réponses.
Since "surtout" is mostly 19th century in both French and English, i.e. dated, I would keep it.
It is used both for military overcoat and for clergy as in "Costume of Prelates of the Catholic Church" written by Fr. John A. Nainfa, SS, published in 1909:
"... The dress of the train-bearer varies according to the different occasions on which he performs his duties. ...over the cassock, he puts the crocia, a surtout of peculiar shape, made of purple cloth or serge, lined and trimmed with purple silk..."
Pour robe de ville, je ne sais pas, quelque chose avec clerical ?
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 22 hrs (2011-07-20 11:27:36 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Je voulais déjà donner cette réponse hier, mais n'en avais rien fait, car il me semblait que vous vouliez utiliser "en surtout" en anglais
Example sentence(s):
Men might don an overcoat such as a surtout (“over all”) or coachman's coat : www.stephensonhouse.org/.../The%20Volunteer%20February%2007.pdf
Petitavoine Local time: 15:16 Specializes in field Native speaker of: French PRO pts in category: 4
The translation workplace 
