Moi aussi j’ai plongé ma tête dans les ténèbres des cuisses
English translation: I, too, have sought solace in the obscurity between a woman's thighs
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17:18 Dec 6, 2011
French to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / line from poem by Robert Desnos
French term or phrase:Moi aussi j’ai plongé ma tête dans les ténèbres des cuisses
For the translation of an article, I need the translation in English of a line by Robert Desnos. The line is "Moi aussi j’ai plongé ma tête dans les ténèbres des cuisses". It comes from the poem "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Love". If you have the book and can check it for me, I would really appreciate it!
I can only tell you it's part of these 4 lines:
La reproduction est le propre de l'espèce,
mais l'amour est le propre de l'individu.
Moi aussi, j'ai plongé ma tête
dans les ténèbres des cuisses.
Otherwise, I will have to give it a try, and I'll probably be too litteral "I too put my face in the darkness of thighs"
I need this for an article about an artist who puts paste-ups in the streets, and is currently painting an erotic one as an hommage to Desnos. The source text is approximatively:
Et il esquisse pour Paris un dessin érotique, poursuivant un parcours autour de Robert Desnos. Car Desnos a aussi écrit : “Moi aussi j’ai plongé ma tête dans les ténèbres des cuisses…”.
Sandrine, for the love of God, please make a decision and put us out of our misery! I think my Yahoo mail server went down last night with all the notifications from this discussion board. :-)
I hope you've had time to have a cold shower! ;o) Thank you for making us laugh, although I hope you realise some of those references COULD be considered offensive (definitely a little crude and occasionally devalorising) I think we have to very aware of the fine line between humour and banalising sex and the sexual organs. Sexual energy is by far the most powerful, and sacred and we should be very careful to use it (and for me that includes the language that evokes the same energy) with respect for oneself and the 'other'.
Having 'speed read' the entire text I found this one other passage where we hear the authors thoughts:
Amour magnifique, pourquoi faut-il que mon langage, à t’évoquer, devienne emphatique. Corsaire Sanglot l’avait prise par la taille et jetée sur le lit. Il la frappait. La croupe sonore avait été cinglée par le plat de la main et les muscles seraient bleus le lendemain. Il l’étranglait presque. Les cuisses étaient brutalement écartées.
But as you have said, and far as I can see there is no way of confirming that the narrator is also Corsaire Sanglot or if they are indeed male. I think the only safe option would be to replace "woman's" with "lover's".
I understood your point -- I just didn't have enough space to both answer your question about “solace” and explain more fully. :) As I was doing my translation, it occurred to me as well that maybe the small portion of text I based it on wasn't enough to hang my hat on. Unfortunately, that probably would take reading the entire chapter, or several chapters.
My thoughts on your question about who's who: I have two theories. First, the person speaking in the ST is neither Corsaire nor Louise but a detached third person describing the action and giving his thoughts from time to time. The writer was a surrealist, so this is a possibility. My second theory is that the person speaking is actually Corsaire, who steps back from the situation at times to share his inner musings, as if he were a mere observer rather than a participant. J. P. Donleavy wrote like this, and it’s a fascinating style, especially for erotic scenes.
But, again, it’s hard to say which theory is correct, not having read more.
This is the mysterious ritual, perhaps the most beautiful. As Corsaire Sanglot started panting, LOOSE Louise (I like that Tony :) gleamed even more than the male.
Yes there is some wordplay with "bien bas" but at this time of day I couldn't find an equvalent in English - over to the nightwatch sweet dreams everybody!
But I can't help thinking this male author is actually saying "I too have been known to do what Loose Louise is currently at down there..." — this would perhaps explain the 'tenèbres' bit; "the love that dare not speak its name" and all that stuff... (well, it's rude to speak with your mouth full anyway...)
I think you have missed my point, there is almost no doubt that Mademoiselle is providing oral pleasure for Monsieur (these both being referred to in the third person), but what I am suggesting is that the person whose thoughts are described in the second paragraph in the FIRST person is actually somebody ELSE for the reasons I have just outlined. What do you reckon?
Surely 'saluer bien bas' just means 'bow deeply'? Though that too, of course, is probably a fairly obvious euphemism for what seems to be going on here... KudoZ is getting rather steamy this evening, I'm off to get my Ovaltine...
Powerful kiss between enemies. Reproduction is the nature of the species, love is the nature of the individual. I welcome you down there kisses on my flesh (this has to be looked at, but there is proof of being down there)
Baiser magistral des bouches ennemies. La reproduction est le propre de l’espèce, mais l’amour est le propre de l’individu. Je vous salue bien bas baisers de la chair. Moi aussi j’ai plongé ma tête dans les ténèbres des cuisses. Louise Lame étreignait étroitement son bel amant. Son œil guettait sur le visage l’effet de la conjonction de sa langue avec la chair. C’est là un rite mystérieux, le plus beau peut-être. Quand la respiration de Corsaire Sanglot se fit haletante, Louise Lame devint plus resplendissante que le mâle
Louise Lame et Corsaire Sanglot considérèrent avec respect, eux qui n’avaient que peu de choses à respecter en raison de leur valeur morale, ces reliefs d’une aventure qui aurait pu être la leur. Puis, après une lutte de regards, ils se déshabillèrent. Quand ils furent nus, Corsaire Sanglot s’allongea en travers sur le lit, de façon que ses pieds touchassent encore le sol, et Louise Lame s’agenouilla devant lui.
In response to your response... My point was simply to point out that we do not know exactly which sentiment is being experienced. Can somebody please explain how in the same text the author refers to Mr watsisname, Missus doodah and 'I', how can he (or she) possibly BE Mr watsisname and 'I'??
It is very clear to me what I have posted. She kneels and plunges if you like in front of him. And his response is 'MOI AUSSI' I plunged down to meet her eyes as she S...S my you know what !
Well really, dear, don't you think we're getting a little risqué here, and certainly off-topic? I've always known it as the 'taint' — 'cos it ain't the one an' it ain't the other
The first lines of the chapter in question may settle the question of Corsaire's gender (and I hope no one questions that of Louise!) Corsaire Sanglot revêt son costume bien connu des rues bruyantes et des trottoirs de bitume. La vie peut continuer s’il lui plaît dans Paris et dans le monde, une voix caressante lui a indiqué son chemin. Celui-ci le conduit aux Tuileries où il rencontre Louise Lame.
Yes Tony I agree, it is her tongue, she is kneeling doing the action, she looks at him, but as for the plunging to towards the thighs, he bends over as he lies on he bed towards his own thighs closer to her face.
Yep, I'm convinced, why would the subject change suddenly? There are no indications that this is "speech" from one of the two people already described. These are "thoughts", it seems quite clear.
The narrative uses the passé simple in thie third person, whereas the ST uses the passé composé in the first person, indicating that this is, as someone has already suggested I think, an aside by the writer. Therefore, the actions between Louise and Corsaire are separate from that described by the writer.
I have to say I disagree with your reading in your last-but-one post: I think it is Louise who is doing the looking, presumably to see if her actions are having the desired effect; note that 'Louise' is the subject of the first sentence, thus the 'Son' in the next sentence logically refers to her, just as 'sa langue' refers to her tongue... at least that's the way I read it!
I would say look again and it could be either, we do not know if it a man or a woman who is speaking, but the other two people who are getting frisky are both referred to in the third person... This is how I see it anyway. He/She seems to be somewhat 'voyeur' and is relating to his or her own emotional / sexual reality. No?
If you look closely at the text. The woman is doing this to a man. The man is on the bed and he bend his head down towards his own thighs to make closer eye contact with Louise. There fore, nothing to do with woman's thighs..
Well, now we have the complete situation, that does put a rather different complexion on things... I didn't realize it was a literal description (though actually, this particular bit does seem to be something of an aside by the author...?)
I just can't quite decide if the male author is identifying personally with what his female character is doing (which might at least explain the 'tenèbres' bit!), or is talking in more general terms of 'the pleasures of the flesh'.
I quite agree with Nadia's comment about the negative connotation of 'tenèbres', but would still like to get to the bottom of it... i.e. why the negative aspect? "The Dark Side of the Thighs..." ???
Given the context from which the ST is drawn, I think a more literal translation is indeed called for. More but not completely:
Louise Lame et Corsaire Sanglot considérèrent avec respect, eux qui n’avaient que peu de choses à respecter en raison de leur valeur morale, ces reliefs d’une aventure qui aurait pu être la leur. Puis, après une lutte de regards, ils se déshabillèrent. Quand ils furent nus, Corsaire Sanglot s’allongea en travers sur le lit, de façon que ses pieds touchassent encore le sol, et Louise Lame s’agenouilla devant lui.
Baiser magistral des bouches ennemies. La reproduction est le propre de l’espèce, mais l’amour est le propre de l’individu. Je vous salue bien bas baisers de la chair. Moi aussi j’ai plongé ma tête dans les ténèbres des cuisses. Louise Lame étreignait étroitement son bel amant. Son œil guettait sur le visage l’effet de la conjonction de sa langue avec la chair. C’est là un rite mystérieux, le plus beau peut-être. Quand la respiration de Corsaire Sanglot se fit haletante, Louise Lame devint plus resplendissante que le mâle.
I really can't help feeling that it's vital here to get away from anything too literal — while the FR manages to uses this metonymy in a suggestively euphemistic way, any literal rendering (e.g. involving 'head' and 'dive', for a start) in EN tends to bring it down to a much more graphically literal level.
Surely something more figurative is required, you know, "I too have tasted the fruit of voluptuous Passion", that sort of squelchy stuff... I know it's meant to be erotic, but do let's keep it "all in the best possible taste!" as Bette Middler might have said.
Yes, by THE translation I did not mean a definite one, but I know this poem was published in English, so I was looking for this 'official' translation.
I too dipped my head in the obscurity of thighs?
I'm not good at all with poetry.
You say "I need THE translation, but there is no such thing as a definitive translation of a poem. Instead of trying to find someone else's translation to copy, you should have a go at it yourself. It's not difficult, and it's fun!
Your suggestion is a good start - though "put my face" is a bit weak for "plongé", and "darkness" may not be the best rendition of 'ténèbres".
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Answers
13 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +3
I too have plunged my head into the shadows between a woman's thighs
Explanation: About as poetic as I can do!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 29 mins (2011-12-06 17:47:50 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
thrust would be the translation for 'enfoncé' though, which may be exagerrating the original sense and thus removing the slightly detached tone of the author...
Kelly Harrison Local time: 15:16 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +3
