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effondrement narcissique

English translation: collapse of self-image

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	effondrement narcissique
English translation:	collapse of self-image
Entered by:	franglish

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15:12 Dec 18, 2007

French to English translations [PRO]
Marketing - Psychology / cosmetics, menopause

French term or phrase: effondrement narcissique

On parle de la ménopause :

Une fois révolue cette période dite « effondrement narcissique », vient enfin acceptation de soi.

This is text on cosmetics, so I need a layman's term. I wouldn't go so far as to say ego crash...

NancyLynn KudoZ activity Questions: 1214 (8 open) (9 without valid answers) (15 closed without grading) Answers: 2159 Canada
Local time: 14:53

collapse of (the sense of) self-esteem/self-worth

Explanation:
should be understood by most, I think

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Note added at 51 mins (2007-12-18 16:03:56 GMT)
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or "self-love"

Selected response from:

franglish
Local time: 20:53

Grading comment

many thanks to all - as I suspected, this was more difficult than it first appeared! All the best in 2008
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +7

collapse of (the sense of) self-esteem/self-worth

franglish

4 +2

Narcissic collapse

Drmanu49

narcissistic decompensation

xxxmistahara

narcissistic breakdown/lowering of self-esteem

Anne de Freyman

mid-life crisis

Carol Gullidge

Feeling of undesirability

Amy Cheshire

narcissistic dejection

liz askew

Discussion entries: 6

Answers

9 mins confidence:

Feeling of undesirability

Explanation:
A suggestion:
Once the feeling of undesirability has passed (or been overcome), you can at last accept yourself as you are.

Amy Cheshire
Local time: 20:53
Native speaker of:

English

22 mins confidence:

narcissistic dejection

Explanation:
Collins Robert

effondrement (de mur, édifice) = collapse; (d'empire, entreprise) = collapse, fall; (=abbatement) utter dejection

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:n_5UUJktfQ0J:www.spp.as...

Conclusion

La pathologie des agresseurs sexuels est variée. À la suite de traumatismes précoces, il peut s'agir de la mise en place de défenses élaborées, réduisant l'autre par exemple à un support fétichique. C'est le tableau classique des perversions sexuelles.

En ce qui concerne les actes les plus violents, on peut parler d'effondrement narcissique. L'acte représente alors une preuve d'existence et n'est pas le résultat d'une construction psychique. D'où son aspect pulsionnel brutal

L'action thérapeutique peut aller de l'aide au Moi, l'étayage, à la restauration des processus donnant accès à la représentation, grâce à une compréhension des phénomènes les plus archaïques.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder - Can the Narcissist become Violent?
Most psychopaths have narcissistic traits and many a narcissist are also sadists. .... Q: After committing a violent act, how will the narcissist deal with ...
samvak.tripod.com/9.html - 37k - Cached - Similar pages

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:w0w05HzPf3wJ:www.ipa.or...

narcissistic dejection?

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Note added at 23 mins (2007-12-18 15:36:13 GMT)
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p.s.
I am not equating menopausal women with psychopaths as I am one myself - a menopausal woman that is! ;)

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Note added at 24 mins (2007-12-18 15:37:20 GMT)
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You are welcome to reject this as out of hand, but I thought I would send it in anyway!

liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:53
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 18

26 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +7

collapse of (the sense of) self-esteem/self-worth

franglish
Local time: 20:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in category: 12

Grading comment

many thanks to all - as I suspected, this was more difficult than it first appeared! All the best in 2008

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

katsy: exactly what I was going to say! I had thought of "self-image", too

7 mins

-> Thanks, Katsy. 'Self-image' would definitely be another option

agree

xxxmistahara: I would agree, but it is an interpretative translation. Why not "narcissistic collapse"??OOps, you are right! I didn't notice, sorry! In this case, a self-esteem collapse/wound sounds good

14 mins

-> Because a layperson's term has been asked for, mistahara//Thank you, mistahara

agree

Victoria Burns: sounds good to me!

37 mins

-> Thank you, Victoria

disagree

iqcservices: disagree; narcissism and self-esteem are different concepts. To the most one could say that narcicssism is morbid form of self-esteem.

1 hr

-> Both are a form of self-love, narcissism mostly considered the negative extreme, as pointed out by Tamara

agree

Tamara Salvio: I like collapse of self-esteem; narcissisme here is the positive, freudian kind, i.e., self-esteem. Because it more often carries a negative connotation in English, the laymans' term is necessary.//"this time of collapsing self-esteem"

1 hr

-> Thank you, Tamara. That's exactly the point

agree

Melissa McMahon: I prefer self-image to self-esteem: my sense of the context is the collapse of one's identity as a (fertile) woman, whether positive or negative

15 hrs

-> Thanks for your comment, Melissa. No wonder, considering the disagreeable physical side-effects many women suffer!

agree

Cervin: Well, it can be a time of life when one looses confidence and questions one's purpose in life-loss of self-worth maybe?

16 hrs

-> The children gone and the husband, like as not, also... Thanks, Cervin!

agree

Carol Gullidge: loss of self esteem

18 hrs

-> I like loss of..., Carol. Thank you.

agree

Emma Paulay: How about "caving in" for "effondrement"?

1 day3 hrs

-> Thanks, Emma. "breaking down" would be more appropriate than "caving in", I think

7 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

Narcissic collapse

Explanation:
Interface of neuropsychology and projective psychology ..... Narcissic collapse may be observed in adolescents whose long lasting epilepsy is treatment ...
www.societerorschach.org/Revue/Volume/1999_ Vol.5.pdf -

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-12-18 16:14:39 GMT)
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Yes narcissistic collapse which is easily understandable.

The narcissistic collapse resulting from the loss of the valued self-image, which is close to the ego ideal, is a painful state which may, at times, ...
www.pep-web.org/document.php?id=IJP.059.0245A -

Drmanu49
Local time: 20:53
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English,

French
PRO pts in category: 50

1 hr confidence:

narcissistic breakdown/lowering of self-esteem

Explanation:
See Google

The term breakdown might fit your purpose better. Breakdown of self-esteem etc...

Anne de Freyman
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:53
Native speaker of: French

11 mins confidence:

narcissistic decompensation

Explanation:
I would say...
LA DECOMPENSATION PSYCHIQUE

En fait, il s'agit d'un terme tiré du vocabulaire de la médecine organique : dans certaines maladies, des troubles, comme par exemple une insuffisance cardiaque peuvent être pendant un certain temps « compensés » : c'est à dire qu'ils existent potentiellement, mais que leurs conséquences néfastes n'apparaissent pas du fait de défenses, de ressources qui les équilibrent.
Quand cet équilibre est rompu, le trouble va se manifester, il ne sera plus "compensé" par autre chose, la maladie sera dite "décompensée".

Par analogie, les troubles psychiques de tous ordres (dépression, psychose, etc.) peuvent être dits également compensés.

Si la personne bascule dans un effondrement de ce qui lui permettait de compenser (refoulement, soutien social, etc.) alors l'apparition d'un symptôme spectaculaire (passage à l'acte, aggravation brutale ...) sera appelée décompensation, toujours par analogie avec la médecine organique.

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Note added at 33 mins (2007-12-18 15:46:18 GMT)
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Also, menopause said to bring about a "narcissistic wound"

...conscience du vieillissement, représentées par des états physiques (rides, ménopause). Elles modifient le Narcissisme, son image de soi. Il faut réussir à les dissocier du Moi existant afin d’accepter cette métamorphose. H. Danon-Boileau dans « De la vieillesse à la mort » définissant cela comme un effondrement de l’estime de soi, un bouleversement de son image de soi et une blessure du narcissisme, caractérisée par une rupture du sentiment de Toute-puissante. Le Moi est donc une fonction qui se déploie dans la dimension de l’imaginaire. C’est la sensation d’un corps unifié produite par l’assomption (au sens littéral: "prendre avec soi) par le sujet de son image dans le miroir à l’époque où il n’a pas encore conquis son autonomie motrice : d’où son pouvoir de fascination. Il en résulte que le Moi se trouve placé sur un axe imaginaire en opposition à sa propre image (narcissisme) ou à celle d’un semblable (petit autre dans le schéma L).

D. Le Breton va plus loin dans « Des visages », en précisant que le rapport à l’image du corps n’est pas seulement sous l’égide du Moi, mais dépend également de l’inconscient, c’est à dire de données internes qui ne sont pas sous le contrôle de la volonté, mais s’imposent avec force à l’acteur. L’individu se voit par ces indices, administrer la preuve qu’il n’est pas « le plus irremplaçable des êtres », il subit une blessure du narcissisme (au sens où celui-ci est considéré comme une protection inconsciente contre les effets du temps, le déni de la réalité) qui réveille toutes les jalousies, envies et sentiments d’impuissance infantile avec cette différence qu’autrefois les désires de compensation, de revanche étayés par le fantasme de Toute-puissance (influencé par la notion religieuse d’Immortalité, rejet de la Mort), ne butaient pas sur la réalité d’un avenir incertain.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-12-18 17:46:46 GMT)
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A layman's term would be "a self-image crisis" or "a narcissistic crisis". "Crisis" is commonly used to define all sorts of psychological turmoils we experience.

xxxmistahara
Local time: 21:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Romanian

1 day52 mins confidence:

mid-life crisis

Explanation:
an improvement on my previous answer (given the new context!)

Mid-life crisis af course can equally apply to men (so-called "male menopause"?), so doesn't sound non politically correct. It's also idiomatic

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:53
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 7

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Changes made by editors

Dec 29, 2007 - Changes made by franglish:
Edited KOG entry	NancyLynn's old entry - "effondrement narcissique" => "collapse of self-image"

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