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16:22 Nov 2, 2011
French to English translations [PRO] Bus/Financial - Real Estate / Déclaration de copropriété
French term or phrase:de l’ensemble des copropriétaires
Voici le paragraphe qui pose problème:
"Ainsi, des quotes-parts particulières de charges pourront être établies pour les charges relatives aux parties communes réservées à l’usage exclusif d’un seul copropriétaire, de l’ensemble des copropriétaires des parties privatives résidentielles."
En réalité, j'ai de la difficulté à comprendre la signification de cette dernière proposition: "de l’ensemble des copropriétaires des parties privatives résidentielles"
Est-ce l'énumération d'un second type de partie commune à usage exclusif, par exemple "parties communes à l'usage exclusif d'un seul copropriétaire et parties communes à l'usage exclusif de l'ensemble des copropriétaires"? Cela me semble improbable car cette section porte strictement sur les parties qui ne sont PAS à l'usage de tous les copropriétaires.
Est-ce une façon de dire que ces charges seront établies à part et non inclues dans les charges communes à tout? Si oui, la tournure française me semble maladroite.
Ma traduction à date:
"Thus, particular expense shares may be established for the expenses related to common portions restricted to exclusive use by a single co-owner, (...)"
Pour moi, c'est tout à fait cela. Sera établi donc un gros gâteau 'parties privatives'. La part des charges à partager pro rata par l'ensemble des copropriétaires sera représentée par la plus grosse part du gâteau et une toute petite part représentera la partie privative à l'utilisation exclusive du seul copropriétaire qui en jouit.
Ce dernier co-propriétaire aura aussi à participer pro rata machin à la grosse part !
des quotes-parts particulières de charges pourront être établies *pour les charges relatives* aux parties communes réservées à l’usage exclusif d’un seul copropriétaire *et pour les charges* de l’ensemble des copropriétaires des parties privatives résidentielles
Si un co-propriétaire a l'usage exclusif de certaines parties communes, il en supporte entièrement les frais et les autres - y compris celui-là - paient chacun la proportion de sa partie individuelle.
This sort of situation is not at all unusual. I used to own a house on a piece of land that had been divided up into a number of plots. Each plot contained lots of little parcels whose shapes and sizes were as strange and exciting as one you might find under a Christmas tree! Errors on the Land Registry meant that in the middle of a private plot, there would be a 2 or 3m² co-owned parcel. Of the nine houses on the land, two were along a stream, a few had a view over the woods and we had a view over the ria. There are rights of access all over the place and some parcels had even been sold twice to different owners. The original owners who had sold the land, annexed from a château, had kept a plot for their son. He never built and finally coastal preservation legislation changed and he was no longer able to build on his land. He was technically a co-owner and had to contribute to insurance etc for the co-owned bits. Yes, a co-owned parcel can be used in fact by one co-owner. Charges and voting rights are usually pro rata the % share. Drafting this type of document is an art and there are some bad artists out there. I have seen worse!
Are there any 'copropriétaires' who are not 'copropriétaires des parties privatives résidentielles'? For example, is there another 'ensemble de copropriétaires' who are 'copropriétaires des locaux commerciaux'?
If the answer to the question is 'yes', then the paragraph makes sense 'as is'.
It certainly sounds like a contradiction. However, I used to live in a block of flats built around a shared garden. The leaseholders or tenants of the ground floor flats were each allowed to cultivate a 2 metre patch of garden between their flat and the path, however this was a concession and the patch of garden was not privately owned or rented by them. Unfortunately, I do not know any legal details of this arrangement.
I agree with jmleger's interpretation, though it's an educated guess and I think I'd include a translator's note saying that the French is garbled. It's possible that a word has been omitted after the comma, such as "OU de l’ensemble des copropriétaires".
mais c'est très courant ce genre de rédaction bâclée. Je crois que cela veut dire que si un co-propriétaire à l'usage exclusif d'une partie de la propriété commune, il paie toutes les charges y afférente et si tous les copropriétaires y ont accès également, les charges sont reparties entre l'ensemble de ces derniers.
First of all, I have to say that the EN in your draught translation contains a number of errors that really need to be addressed in order to really get the intended meaning of what you are trying to say.
Although I am not a FR native speaker, I can't help thinking there is actually an error in the source text; I can't really beging to work out what it is, but I suspect they are trying to say "... a proportion of the charges... applicable to all the co-owners" — that would make sense: if 1% of the property is in fact for the exclusive use of just one co-owner, then it would be normal for 99% of the charges to be divided equally between all the owners, and then the whole of extra 1% added on for just this one tenant.
Yes, Sheila, I think you have the general idea, though in practice, there will also be some areas that are genuinely common, which is what complicates the issue slightly.
I think they are splitting the bill for maintenance of the common areas between all co-owners, each paying in proportion to the amount they own for personal use. Hmm, perhaps an example would help: Mr A. owns 5% of the total space and Miss B. owns 10% of the total. Between them, they would pay 15% of the total bill, with B paying twice as much as A. Anyone else think that possible?
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Answers
34 days confidence:
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Explanation: On dirait presque qu'il manque un mot près la virgule ! ("séparé" de l'ensemble des co-pro...). Puisque tu as bien compris le sens général de la phrase, je te soutiens dans ton initiative de ne rien mettre.
N'hésite pas à soumettre tout de même l’extrait plus complet du texte à un principal de co-pro de n'importe quel syndicat pour qu'il confirme.
Emilie LEFEUVRE France Local time: 21:00 Specializes in field Native speaker of: French
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