KudoZ home » French to English » Religion

aumônier des ministres

English translation: comment - no help!

Advertisement

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
17:29 Feb 15, 2006
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Religion
French term or phrase: aumônier des ministres
Alain de La Morandais is an "ancien aumônier des ministres". Simply put, I don't know what that means.
Jonathan Widell
Canada
Local time: 03:51
English translation:comment - no help!
Explanation:
An interesting one!

Google has no hits for "aumônier des ministres" without the name Morandais, which would suggest that rather than an official title, this is a nickname he has been given.

Given that in the old days there was an "aumônier du roi", and that the French have simply transposed the ways of their royal and imperial eras over to the representatives of the Republic, I suspected that the "aumônier des ministres" was a special confessor: "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned, and had the elections rigged ...", "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned, and had X murdered to make it look like suicide ..." You know, the usual royal/imperial/political thing that could only be entrusted to an "elite" priest ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2006-02-15 17:56:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I nearly said something about Cardinal Richelieu just now ... I might not have been far wrong if this is to be believed:

L'Opus Dei fut fondée en 1928 par monseigneur José-Maria Escriva de Balaguer. Son but est de faire triompher le catholicisme d'état. Elle a soutenu, de façon occulte, les régimes fascistes de Franco en Espagne, de Mussolini en Italie et le régime de Vichy. La secte a financé le réarmement de l'Allemagne et elle a favorisé la prise de pouvoir d'Adolf Hitler. Hitler et Mussolini ont été soutenus par l'Opus Dei. Le IIIème Reich correspond tout à fait à l'idéologie de la secte. Par exemple, la devise "travail, famille, patrie" prônée par le maréchal Pétain est directement issue de cette idéologie... La devise officielle de l'Opus Dei est:
[…]
Pour comprendre de quelle façon la secte contrôle l'état, la justice et une bonne partie des médias, je vais énoncer une liste de personnalités que l'on retrouve dans les annales de l'Opus Dei...
Catherine Bardinet (Rhum Négrita)... Thérèse Leclerc, comtesse de Hautecloque... Maurice Schuman, ex-ministre des Affaires Etrangères... Jean Foyer, ex-garde des Sceaux... Edmond Giscard d'Estaing, père de Valéry Giscard d'Estaing (l'ex-Présisent de la République) et ex-PDG du Tunnel du Mont-Blanc... Antoine Pinay, ex-ministre des Finances... Raymond Barre, ex-1er ministre de VGE et ex-ministre des Finances... Edouard Balladur, ex-ministre des Finances de Jacques Chirac (à l'époque des J.O. d'Albertville) et ex-1er ministre... J.M. Daillet, ex-député UDF et porte-parole de la secte... Christine Boutin, secrétaire nationale du CDS, député et militante active du mouvement contre l'avortement avec Hervé Gaymard... Bernard et Françoise Seiller et Michel d'Ornano... L'ABBE ALAIN MAILLARD DE LA MORANDAIS, CONSEILLER SPIRITUEL DU GOUVERNEMENT BALLADUR (1993/1995) - Radio Notre-Dame... Jean-Claude Gaudin (sénateur - député)-Jacques Barrot, ex-ministre de la Santé sous Jacques Chirac et "patron" d'Hervé Gaymard (ex-secrétaire d'État à la Santé et ex-secrétaire d'État aux Finances)... Hervé Gaymard lui-même, directeur de campagne de Jacques Chirac dès 1994,
http://actumediajeune.hautetfort.com/archive/2005/02/27/herv...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2006-02-15 18:09:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think I'd go for "former unofficial spiritual advisor to members of the government", or something along those lines. It all sounds very suspicious, something that would have the kids in the "quartiers" out in the streets again if it were better known ...

l’abbé Alain Maillard de la Morandais (fondateur de Radio Notre-Dame et ... L’abbé ne dément pas quant on le qualifie de "conseiller spirituel du ...
www.voltairenet.org/article6776.html

l'Abbé Alain Maillard de la Morandais, conseiller spirituel du Gouvernement Balladur", plus simplement ancien curé de la paroisse qui jouxte ...
les-tables-de-chaulnes.hautetfort.com/ archive/2005/03/index.html


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2006-02-16 01:33:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Similar allegations have been levelled against the ruling class in France for not wanting to know the ethnic makeup of the country, i.e. keep people ignorant of their "weight" in the country, and rule ... by NOT having positive discrimination through quotas because, officially, no one knows how many "African black", "Caribbean black", "Arabo-Berber", "Asian", etc. people there are in the country to establish quotas for.
Selected response from:

xxxBourth
Local time: 09:51
Grading comment
Well, the question seems to be so hairy that I will have to explain it in a footnote. I wrote the Opus Dei office in Paris to ask them about Alain de La Morandais' job description, but they have not wrote me back yet. Thanks.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Advertisement


Summary of answers provided
4 +2chaplain
Nicola Bigwood
4former almoner
Christopher Crockett
3chaplain of the ministers
Heather Socie
1 +1comment - no help!xxxBourth


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
aumônier des ministres
former almoner


Explanation:
the meaning of "des minsitres" will depend upon the context.

here's the OED on

ALMONER

1. An official distributor of the alms of another; the name of a functionary in a religious house, in the household of a bishop, prince, or other person of rank. Sometimes applied to the chaplain of a hospital, or other institution.
In the royal household of Great Britain there is a titular Hereditary Grand Almoner besides the Lord High Almoner, and Sub-almoner, who are clergymen.

c1300 Cursor M. 15219 Judas..Was iesu crist aumoner [v.r. aumener(e]. 1366 MAUNDEV. XIX. 210 Whan the covent of this abbeye hath eaten, the awmener let bere the releef to the gardyn. 1444 Polit. Poems II. 220 The awmeneer seyth he cam to late. 1494 FABYAN VII. 586 The lord of Awdeley amner, in stede of the erle of Cambrydge. 1548 HALL Chron. 790 Dr. Fox the Kynges Amner made an eloquent oracion in Latin. 1591 PERCIVALL Sp. Dict., Limosnero, an almener. 1630 R. BRATHWAIT Eng. Gent. (1641) 242 These deferre giving, till they cannot give, making their executors their almoners. 1647 HAWARD Crown Rev. 31 Gentleman Amner: Fee, 11l. 8s. 1d. ob.; Subamner: Fee, 6l. 16s. 10d. ob. 1654 LESTRANGE K. Charles I, 176 There came to London from Cardinal Richelieu..his Chaplain and Almner. 1667 E. CHAMBERLAYNE St. Gt. Brit. I. II. xii. (1743) 97 The Lord Almoner disposes of the king's alms. 1748 RICHARDSON Clarissa (1811) III. xxxvi. 209 He is now and then my almoner. 1867 J. MARTINEAU Chr. Life (ed. 4) 178 The almoner of God to the poor and sad. 1870 Daily News 10 Nov., The almoners of the Berliner Hülfsverein.
1483 CAXTON Gold. Leg. 124/3 He [saynt Johan] was called almosner or amener. 1553-87 FOXE A. & M. (1596) 1693/1 The almosiner, a phisition, and a surgeon to attend upon them. 1586 Wills & Inv. N.C. (1860) 134 To the almosiners of this towne of Middlesburghe. 1601 TATE tr. Househ. Ord. Ed. II, §19. 55 For the ausmoner & al under him. 1617 JAMES I Patent in Lib. Mun. Hib. I. ii. 81 To erect and establish an office of Almosner in this our realm of Ireland.
1528 MORE Heresyes I. Wks. 1557, 164/2 Doctor Mayo, sometyme almoygner to king Henry the seuenth. 1564 GRINDAL Fun. Serm. Wks. 1843, 32 The Bishop of Rochester, chiefe Almoygnor. 1598 STOW Surv. (ed. Strype 1754) II. ix. 718/1 All Almoisners and houses of Almoise.
?c1400 in Dom. Arch. III. 133 The aumere a rod schall haue in honde. c1430 LYDG. ibid. III. 133 Humble compassion was his awmerer. 1450 Old Will in Academy 27 Sept. (1882) 231/2 The thonne of ame the o almer and the tother of yame the tother almar. c1510 Bonaventura's Myrrour (Pynson) viii. Dj, Theyr amonerers or tresourers myght lightly have had it in hande. a1600 Mem. of Spottiswood 3 (Jam.) To stay with the queene and attend her Maiestie as her Almowr.
2. fig.

1822 B. CORNWALL Lys. & Ione 1 Iris..Is the Spring's almoner..and scatters Upon the subject world, dyed flowers and sweets. 1873 SIR J. HERSCHEL Pop. Lect. ii. §20. 62 The sun is the almoner of the Almighty.
3. One who gives alms largely; an alms-giver. Obs. or arch.

1303 R. BRUNNE Handl. Synne 5575 Seynt Joan e aumonere. 1340 Ayenb. 190 Ine e lyue of Ion e amoner. a1400 Relig. Pieces fr. Thornton MS. 53. Mercy hir syster salle be ambynowre at gyffes to alle. 1483 [See in 1]. 1580 BARET Alv. A365 An Amner, or giuer of almes, seemeth to be deriued of this French worde Aumosnier, and therefore ought rather to be written almonar. 1585 ABP. SANDYS Serm. (1841) 193 Who for his liberal relieving of the needy was surnamed the Almner. 1591 H. LOCKE in Farr S.P. I. 138 An amner to the poore that helpless cry. 1607 HIERON Wks. I. 389 [Dorcas] was a discreet, iust, compassionate, cheerefull, simple-hearted almoner. 1874 J. HOLLAND Mist. Manse ix. 156 Who found the largess in her palms And him the friendly almoner.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 03:51
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
aumônier des ministres
chaplain of the ministers


Explanation:
As described by the dictionary, a chaplain is a clergyman in charge of a chapel. In this instance, there could be more than one chaplain, and he is designated in charge specifically of the ministers. Hard to say without more background, but that would be my interpretation.


    Reference: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=chaplain&book=Dicti...
Heather Socie
United States
Local time: 02:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
aumônier des ministres
chaplain


Explanation:
He was the former chaplain among the ministers - chaplains often work in non-religious institutions (e.g. hospitals) whereas ministers work soley in churches etc.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2006-02-15 17:43:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That should be *solely* :o)
But I agree that the context should help more with the "des ministres" aspect.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2006-02-15 17:57:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Following on from Bourth's comment below, I'd also suggest "chaplain for the ministers" ;o)

Nicola Bigwood
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:51
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  chaplin: In France aumônier used to be priests in schools, prisons and hospitals now they are lay people
3 mins

agree  Judy Gregg: Fromer chaplain
2 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +1
aumônier des ministres
comment - no help!


Explanation:
An interesting one!

Google has no hits for "aumônier des ministres" without the name Morandais, which would suggest that rather than an official title, this is a nickname he has been given.

Given that in the old days there was an "aumônier du roi", and that the French have simply transposed the ways of their royal and imperial eras over to the representatives of the Republic, I suspected that the "aumônier des ministres" was a special confessor: "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned, and had the elections rigged ...", "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned, and had X murdered to make it look like suicide ..." You know, the usual royal/imperial/political thing that could only be entrusted to an "elite" priest ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2006-02-15 17:56:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I nearly said something about Cardinal Richelieu just now ... I might not have been far wrong if this is to be believed:

L'Opus Dei fut fondée en 1928 par monseigneur José-Maria Escriva de Balaguer. Son but est de faire triompher le catholicisme d'état. Elle a soutenu, de façon occulte, les régimes fascistes de Franco en Espagne, de Mussolini en Italie et le régime de Vichy. La secte a financé le réarmement de l'Allemagne et elle a favorisé la prise de pouvoir d'Adolf Hitler. Hitler et Mussolini ont été soutenus par l'Opus Dei. Le IIIème Reich correspond tout à fait à l'idéologie de la secte. Par exemple, la devise "travail, famille, patrie" prônée par le maréchal Pétain est directement issue de cette idéologie... La devise officielle de l'Opus Dei est:
[…]
Pour comprendre de quelle façon la secte contrôle l'état, la justice et une bonne partie des médias, je vais énoncer une liste de personnalités que l'on retrouve dans les annales de l'Opus Dei...
Catherine Bardinet (Rhum Négrita)... Thérèse Leclerc, comtesse de Hautecloque... Maurice Schuman, ex-ministre des Affaires Etrangères... Jean Foyer, ex-garde des Sceaux... Edmond Giscard d'Estaing, père de Valéry Giscard d'Estaing (l'ex-Présisent de la République) et ex-PDG du Tunnel du Mont-Blanc... Antoine Pinay, ex-ministre des Finances... Raymond Barre, ex-1er ministre de VGE et ex-ministre des Finances... Edouard Balladur, ex-ministre des Finances de Jacques Chirac (à l'époque des J.O. d'Albertville) et ex-1er ministre... J.M. Daillet, ex-député UDF et porte-parole de la secte... Christine Boutin, secrétaire nationale du CDS, député et militante active du mouvement contre l'avortement avec Hervé Gaymard... Bernard et Françoise Seiller et Michel d'Ornano... L'ABBE ALAIN MAILLARD DE LA MORANDAIS, CONSEILLER SPIRITUEL DU GOUVERNEMENT BALLADUR (1993/1995) - Radio Notre-Dame... Jean-Claude Gaudin (sénateur - député)-Jacques Barrot, ex-ministre de la Santé sous Jacques Chirac et "patron" d'Hervé Gaymard (ex-secrétaire d'État à la Santé et ex-secrétaire d'État aux Finances)... Hervé Gaymard lui-même, directeur de campagne de Jacques Chirac dès 1994,
http://actumediajeune.hautetfort.com/archive/2005/02/27/herv...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2006-02-15 18:09:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think I'd go for "former unofficial spiritual advisor to members of the government", or something along those lines. It all sounds very suspicious, something that would have the kids in the "quartiers" out in the streets again if it were better known ...

l’abbé Alain Maillard de la Morandais (fondateur de Radio Notre-Dame et ... L’abbé ne dément pas quant on le qualifie de "conseiller spirituel du ...
www.voltairenet.org/article6776.html

l'Abbé Alain Maillard de la Morandais, conseiller spirituel du Gouvernement Balladur", plus simplement ancien curé de la paroisse qui jouxte ...
les-tables-de-chaulnes.hautetfort.com/ archive/2005/03/index.html


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2006-02-16 01:33:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Similar allegations have been levelled against the ruling class in France for not wanting to know the ethnic makeup of the country, i.e. keep people ignorant of their "weight" in the country, and rule ... by NOT having positive discrimination through quotas because, officially, no one knows how many "African black", "Caribbean black", "Arabo-Berber", "Asian", etc. people there are in the country to establish quotas for.

xxxBourth
Local time: 09:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Well, the question seems to be so hairy that I will have to explain it in a footnote. I wrote the Opus Dei office in Paris to ask them about Alain de La Morandais' job description, but they have not wrote me back yet. Thanks.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Flo Demolis: Very impressive research! I would avoid the term "ministers" because it could be mistakenly thought to refer to religious ministers- ie clergymen. Given the context, I'd go for spiritual advisor. I've already seen him on TV http://morandais.canalblog.com/
19 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search