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pavillon sans quartier

English translation: flag of no quarter

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:pavillon sans quartier
English translation:flag of no quarter
Entered by: thurayya
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20:14 Jun 28, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Ships, Sailing, Maritime / 18th c ms, travelogue, dictated and handwritten
French term or phrase: pavillon sans quartier
Not sure if I should use "pirate flag" or "Jolly Roger". Interestingly, the author states as a definition of "pavillon sans quartier": "C'est un pavillon ou les uns ont trois testes de mort avec des larmes et deux sabres en croix, rouges, le tout sur une étoffe noir. Les autres on trois croissants etc."

I have read some commentary about the "sans quartier" meaning a red flag, but this is what the author, in 1730, called this flag.
thurayya
United States
Local time: 10:47
TIME FRAME
Explanation:
There is much debate about pirate flags and where the term "Jolly Roger" comes from, though some say it is a deformation of "jolie rouge".

Now, one site claims that ORIGINALLY pirates flew under a plain red flag, which would indeed match the "jolie rouge" claim, and that at that time a BLACK flag hoisted at the time of engagement meant they would show no quarter. If your author speaks of a black flag meaning this, I see no reason to doubt him and speak of a red flag in your translation. It might simply be that times have changed.

The RED FLAG TODAY is associated with warning, and in the context of late 17th century privateering, it served the same purpose of WARNING ANOTHER VESSEL NOT TO RESIST. The flag as defined by the Admiralty in 1694 was an all red flag known as 'The Red Jack'. It's description as 'that recognised privateering symbol' indicated that the device was flown earlier in the century. Privateers later referred to 'sailing under the Red Jack'. At around the same time, a new symbol appeared. References to a BLACK FLAG were noted in reports of privateering actions, the first in 1697. This was raised by a privateer if the victim's vessel showed any kind of resistance, and WAS A SYMBOL THAT LITTLE OR NO QUARTER WOULD BE GIVEN. Yellow flags were also mentioned, although unlike their current association with quarantine, their precise meaning in the late 17th century was unknown. Therefore, by 1700, red and black were flag colours associated with privateering. When the outlets for legitimate privateering dried up at the end of the War of the Spanish Succession in 1714, many privateers turned to piracy. They simply retained their old symbols, although black became the favoured colour. Red continued to be associated with privateering until the 19th century. The American 18th century privateering colour of a red flag overlaid with white horizontal stripes provided the inspiration for part of the existing flag of the USA. SOME REPORTS say the Jully ROGER WAS RUN UP FIRST, TO SIGNIFY AN OFFER OF QUARTER. If the victim refused to surrender, the PLAIN RED FLAG WAS FLOWN TO SHOW THE OFFER HAD BEEN WITHDRAWN AND NO MERCY COULD BE EXPECTED.
http://www.kipar.org/piratical-resources/pirate-flags.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolly_Roger


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-06-28 23:48:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I see no reason not to call it the "no-quarter flag", irrespective of colour.

As the Mexican troops surrounded the Alamo, Santa Anna raised the "no quarter" flag, indicating that no man inside the Alamo would be taken prisoner. ...
www.fff.org/freedom/1298a.asp

While it was commonly associated with pirates, it was not as greatly feared as the red "NO QUARTER" flag which meant that no mercy would be shown if the ...
www.ultimateflags.com/novelty/skull_swords.html


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-06-29 00:00:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Buccaneers would often raise a red flag along with their national flag when calling on a ship to surrender. The red flag, simply put, meant that no quarter would be given if a ship offered resistance. This flag was called joli rouge and would have easily been corrupted into English as the Jolly Roger. The name transferred when the flag SWITCHED from red to black
[...]
Once in close the Jolly Roger would be quickly hoisted as a battle flag at the moment of engagement. The JOLLY ROGER was also a symbol that meant NO QUARTER would be given if a battle ensued
http://blindkat.hegewisch.net/pirates/jolirouge.html

The truth is that pirates would not use a distinctive flag, but more often used a simple RED FLAG OR BLACK FLAG, universal symbols of NO QUARTER and take no prisoners. The distinctive flag was more of a personal banner in the same way a general or admiral today has a personal flag
http://piratemasterwiki.cbs.com/page/Pirate Flags?t=anon
[site includes pictures of the flags of a number of pirates, including that of Edmund Condent with three skull-and-crossbones]

Wrong context and timeframe but:
The use of the BLACK FLAG by anarchists, therefore, is an expression of their roots and activity in the labour movement in Europe, particularly in France. The anarchist adoption of the Black Flag by the anarchist movement in the 1880s reflects its use as "the traditional symbol of hunger, poverty and despair" and that it was "raised during popular risings in Europe as a sign of NO SURRENDER AND NO QUARTER."
http://www.spunk.org/texts/intro/faq/sp001547/append2.html

Everyone has seen pictures of the famous Pirate Flag. But actually that flag was not the symbol for pirates at all!
For centuries, a plain BLACK FLAG was a MILITARY SYMBOL, rarely used, that signified "NO QUARTER" or no mercy given, none expected and no prisioners taken. This flag was flown by an army unit, or a ship, in place of the regular regimental or Naval Colours. The flag might also be emblazoned with the heraldic symbol of Death, the Skull and Crossed Bones (Crossbones) nicknamed, "the Jolly Roger".
Since piracy on the high seas carried the death penalty, pirates knew that if they were captured by a naval vessel it would be a quick trip to the gallows for the lot of them. As pirate ships were considered "stateless vessels" anyway, their flying of the Black Flag, the "Jolly Roger", was only natural.
http://tmlha.exis.net/nwp.htm

Another well known flag is the "Jolly Roger", used by pirates to frighten people. These flags usually had a BLACK background which stood for "NO QUARTER" or ...
chinese-school.netfirms.com/other-article-flags.html

A BLACK FLAG: is the emblem of piracy or of NO QUARTER. (See Black Flags.) To unfurl the black flag. To declare war. The curtain which used to hang before ...
www.infoplease.com/dictionary/brewers/flag.html

He forewarned then he would give them NO QUARTER during a cease fire. They flew a BLACK FLAG, showing they would not surrender and expected no quarter. ...
forum.tallahassee.com/viewtopic.php?p=97314&sid=f7ebf6e80e14db92e70d841488fda7c4


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-06-29 00:08:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually "flag of no quarter" appears to be far more common than "no quarter flag", going by Google hits.
Selected response from:

xxxBourth
Local time: 17:47
Grading comment
Thanks for all the commentary. I may still use "Jolly Roger" just because of the Caribbean/Atlantic context, but this would be the most straight-forward translation.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4TIME FRAMExxxBourth
4red flag
Graham macLachlan


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


43 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
red flag


Explanation:
Red flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is known that from about 1300, Norman ships would fly red streamers to indicate that they would "give no quarter" (take no prisoners) in battle. This usage persisted into the 17th century, when the flag was adopted by Buccaneers, who were pirates of French origin operating in the West Indies. Buccaneers would initially hoist the Jolly Roger to intimidate their foes. If the victims chose to fight rather than submit to being boarded, the pirates would then raise the red flag to indicate that once the ship had been captured, no man would be spared.[1]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag


Graham macLachlan
Local time: 17:47
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 352
Notes to answerer
Asker: This is very interesting and I appreciate the info. It may be that my author does not know all the proper terms (he is not a sailor) . However, it does not sound like the flag was actually red, only the swords, and it was only one flag.

Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
TIME FRAME


Explanation:
There is much debate about pirate flags and where the term "Jolly Roger" comes from, though some say it is a deformation of "jolie rouge".

Now, one site claims that ORIGINALLY pirates flew under a plain red flag, which would indeed match the "jolie rouge" claim, and that at that time a BLACK flag hoisted at the time of engagement meant they would show no quarter. If your author speaks of a black flag meaning this, I see no reason to doubt him and speak of a red flag in your translation. It might simply be that times have changed.

The RED FLAG TODAY is associated with warning, and in the context of late 17th century privateering, it served the same purpose of WARNING ANOTHER VESSEL NOT TO RESIST. The flag as defined by the Admiralty in 1694 was an all red flag known as 'The Red Jack'. It's description as 'that recognised privateering symbol' indicated that the device was flown earlier in the century. Privateers later referred to 'sailing under the Red Jack'. At around the same time, a new symbol appeared. References to a BLACK FLAG were noted in reports of privateering actions, the first in 1697. This was raised by a privateer if the victim's vessel showed any kind of resistance, and WAS A SYMBOL THAT LITTLE OR NO QUARTER WOULD BE GIVEN. Yellow flags were also mentioned, although unlike their current association with quarantine, their precise meaning in the late 17th century was unknown. Therefore, by 1700, red and black were flag colours associated with privateering. When the outlets for legitimate privateering dried up at the end of the War of the Spanish Succession in 1714, many privateers turned to piracy. They simply retained their old symbols, although black became the favoured colour. Red continued to be associated with privateering until the 19th century. The American 18th century privateering colour of a red flag overlaid with white horizontal stripes provided the inspiration for part of the existing flag of the USA. SOME REPORTS say the Jully ROGER WAS RUN UP FIRST, TO SIGNIFY AN OFFER OF QUARTER. If the victim refused to surrender, the PLAIN RED FLAG WAS FLOWN TO SHOW THE OFFER HAD BEEN WITHDRAWN AND NO MERCY COULD BE EXPECTED.
http://www.kipar.org/piratical-resources/pirate-flags.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolly_Roger


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-06-28 23:48:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I see no reason not to call it the "no-quarter flag", irrespective of colour.

As the Mexican troops surrounded the Alamo, Santa Anna raised the "no quarter" flag, indicating that no man inside the Alamo would be taken prisoner. ...
www.fff.org/freedom/1298a.asp

While it was commonly associated with pirates, it was not as greatly feared as the red "NO QUARTER" flag which meant that no mercy would be shown if the ...
www.ultimateflags.com/novelty/skull_swords.html


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-06-29 00:00:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Buccaneers would often raise a red flag along with their national flag when calling on a ship to surrender. The red flag, simply put, meant that no quarter would be given if a ship offered resistance. This flag was called joli rouge and would have easily been corrupted into English as the Jolly Roger. The name transferred when the flag SWITCHED from red to black
[...]
Once in close the Jolly Roger would be quickly hoisted as a battle flag at the moment of engagement. The JOLLY ROGER was also a symbol that meant NO QUARTER would be given if a battle ensued
http://blindkat.hegewisch.net/pirates/jolirouge.html

The truth is that pirates would not use a distinctive flag, but more often used a simple RED FLAG OR BLACK FLAG, universal symbols of NO QUARTER and take no prisoners. The distinctive flag was more of a personal banner in the same way a general or admiral today has a personal flag
http://piratemasterwiki.cbs.com/page/Pirate Flags?t=anon
[site includes pictures of the flags of a number of pirates, including that of Edmund Condent with three skull-and-crossbones]

Wrong context and timeframe but:
The use of the BLACK FLAG by anarchists, therefore, is an expression of their roots and activity in the labour movement in Europe, particularly in France. The anarchist adoption of the Black Flag by the anarchist movement in the 1880s reflects its use as "the traditional symbol of hunger, poverty and despair" and that it was "raised during popular risings in Europe as a sign of NO SURRENDER AND NO QUARTER."
http://www.spunk.org/texts/intro/faq/sp001547/append2.html

Everyone has seen pictures of the famous Pirate Flag. But actually that flag was not the symbol for pirates at all!
For centuries, a plain BLACK FLAG was a MILITARY SYMBOL, rarely used, that signified "NO QUARTER" or no mercy given, none expected and no prisioners taken. This flag was flown by an army unit, or a ship, in place of the regular regimental or Naval Colours. The flag might also be emblazoned with the heraldic symbol of Death, the Skull and Crossed Bones (Crossbones) nicknamed, "the Jolly Roger".
Since piracy on the high seas carried the death penalty, pirates knew that if they were captured by a naval vessel it would be a quick trip to the gallows for the lot of them. As pirate ships were considered "stateless vessels" anyway, their flying of the Black Flag, the "Jolly Roger", was only natural.
http://tmlha.exis.net/nwp.htm

Another well known flag is the "Jolly Roger", used by pirates to frighten people. These flags usually had a BLACK background which stood for "NO QUARTER" or ...
chinese-school.netfirms.com/other-article-flags.html

A BLACK FLAG: is the emblem of piracy or of NO QUARTER. (See Black Flags.) To unfurl the black flag. To declare war. The curtain which used to hang before ...
www.infoplease.com/dictionary/brewers/flag.html

He forewarned then he would give them NO QUARTER during a cease fire. They flew a BLACK FLAG, showing they would not surrender and expected no quarter. ...
forum.tallahassee.com/viewtopic.php?p=97314&sid=f7ebf6e80e14db92e70d841488fda7c4


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-06-29 00:08:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually "flag of no quarter" appears to be far more common than "no quarter flag", going by Google hits.

xxxBourth
Local time: 17:47
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 142
Grading comment
Thanks for all the commentary. I may still use "Jolly Roger" just because of the Caribbean/Atlantic context, but this would be the most straight-forward translation.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Conor McAuley: Full marks for the term "legitimate pirateering", though! ;-)
10 hrs
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